burst accumulator sphere??

deian · Post by **deian** » 12 May 2006, 17:26

Hi Guys,

As some of you know, I've recently replaced the accumulator sphere on my car, and lately been having weird problems... including air in the system... today further investigation was made... (sorry not bled them yet, will do tomorrow)... after doing some citrobeotics to clear the air... i noticed some bubbles coming up inot the LHM tank as the regulator clicks, this in turn with the regulator clicking a LOT more (just after replacing the sphere it hardly ever clicked).

So has my newly installed Acc.Sphere burst so soon (2 months or so)? It was a reconditioned, GSF ones next i guess. I'd like some input from you guys first before forking out on a new sphere, what are the symptoms of a dead front regulator?

Many Thanks!

406 V6 · Post by **406 V6** » 12 May 2006, 19:50

See if the intake hose from the reservoir has no cracks or leaks.
If you've bought the sphere not so many time ago, i would go back to GSF to have them check the sphere for pressure and condition. Seems like you hit the spot :S
Good luck mate

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 12 May 2006, 21:10

It has nothing to do with GSF - but its known from many owners that recon spheres are lemons

The best proof is to replace with the old accumulator sphere again (as this you have saved for a possible later problem - right ?)

In this up-coming weekend you can do a simple test : swap the main accumulator sphere with one of the front wheel spheres.
Its not the idea to test drive the car in this set-up - as this would clearly be unsafe with the wrong type sphere fitted as wheel sphere.

But you will immediately be told in this test if the accumulator is no good : as a wheel sphere it MUST feels soft with the standard jerk test of that corner (with car in normal height). If at the same time the wheel sphere - now acting as an accumulator sphere - causes the ticking to slow down at normal intervals - you have further proof that the acc sphere is at fault.

Recon spheres are still covered by the standard 2years trade warranty - so you simply get it refunded by GSF. Then purchase a brand new sphere please - and do that in the future

deian · Post by **deian** » 12 May 2006, 21:36

yes i have the old one

(still not a great one either, but a genuine citroen one)

problem is, the one i got on now wasn't bought from GSF (stupid of me i know)
doesn't gsf supply new spheres (i.e not reconditioned)

i do suspect a bad sphere, that air could well be nitrogen leaking from a burst membrane, i don't think i'll swap the sphere anders, i'm scared lol, and can't be bothered, don't wanna be opening up a can of worms over the weekend,

to be honest with you i wasn't impressed by it when i bought it, remember the bad seal i had with it, patheticness indeed, i will just buy a new one from gsf, but still keep the old citroen one, and cut the one thats on now up to bits so i can see the belly of them, will post pics.

thanks guys

Mandrake · Post by **Mandrake** » 12 May 2006, 22:20

It was a reconditioned accumulator sphere ? Theres your problem I'm afraid.

Because the accumulator sphere is subject to MAXIMUM system pressure all the time that the car is running, (unlike the suspension spheres which only operate at the pressure needed to lift the weight of the car - about 1/2 maximum for the front, and about 1/3 maximum for an unladden rear) it is subject to the most strain of any sphere.

The high operating pressure causes the diaphram to be folded back fairly far up inside the sphere even when the sphere is gassed to its normal 62 bars. When they get a bit down on gas the diaphram is forced even further towards the top.

By the time an accumulator sphere is down to half its normal pressure its too late to regass it and get a decent life expectancy out of it, and because the accumulator sphere doesn't directly affect the ride quality, people don't notice they need replacing until its FAR too late to regass it.

So I think the basic concept of 3rd party "reconditioned" accumulator spheres is flawed, they are almost never going to last or be reliable. (They don't know the history of the sphere before trying to "recondition" it)

I've tried using regassed accumulators before, even some that we regassed ourselves, and despite taking care to do it properly, they failed within a few weeks, one even failed (with a loud internal SPLAT) as soon as the car was first pressurized! (But the regassed suspension spheres lasted well...)

Because of that I only ever use NEW accumulator spheres now. Yes it costs a bit more, but when you consider it will last several years, AND it is your main source of emergency braking should the auxillary belt snap its worth it, just from a peace of mind point of view.

(And I buy a new accumulator even though here in NZ they cost about $140 which is about 54 pounds! You guys have no excuse not to get a new one when they're so cheap over there...

)

You can confirm if the sphere has died by checking the regulator cycle time, and also doing the sit-in-the-boot-test. If it has gone splat inside then it will be bubling loads of nitrogen into the system, (which can carry on for days or weeks) which could easily explain how air could have got into your rear brakes (probably front ones too) AND it could explain the ride harshness issues you've described.

So I'd get a new accumulator sphere from GSF, and take that one back if you can.

After fitting the new sphere do plenty of Citrerobics then bleed the front and rear brakes and you should be all back to normal.

Oh, and please be VERY careful if you attempt to cut open the faulty one. If it still has significant pressure left in it, it could be somewhat dangerous...(personally I wouldn't bother)

Regards,
Simon

deian · Post by **deian** » 13 May 2006, 11:13

I thought so, lesson learnt for me!! damn cheapos

davetd · Post by **davetd** » 13 May 2006, 11:52

Someone posted pics on the forum earlier this year of a sphere cut open can't remember the thread though

BonceChops · Post by **BonceChops** » 13 May 2006, 12:14

Daft question alert......Are you sure you tightened up the pressure release screw on the regulator correctly? Maybe it didn't seat properly. It would be worth undoing if 1/4 turn and retightening it before you do anything else. Takes 5 minutes and will be one thing checked off before trying another new sphere.

deian · Post by **deian** » 13 May 2006, 13:22

not a daft question, many problems are corrected by checking the daftest (or most basic) things first, you gotta start somewhere

definately tight mate, i distinctly remember doing that one, and chekcing it recently but i will check again just in case, thanks bud

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 13 May 2006, 13:31

Daft advice alert ...

Doing the pressure release screw : tighten it, NEVER torque it.

deian · Post by **deian** » 13 May 2006, 14:44

thanks anders lol, let me show off here... cos i know why not to torque it, the screw just pushes a ball bearing into place, so if it's too tight you will destroy the ball bearing... correct?

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 13 May 2006, 14:55

deian wrote:thanks anders lol, let me show off here... cos i know why not to torque it, the screw just pushes a ball bearing into place, so if it's too tight you will destroy the ball bearing... correct?

Thats pretty much it.

If its a soft brass ball, it'll be soft and easilly damaged. If its a steel ball bearing it'll be pretty hard and you won't damage it, you'll damage the seat that it seals against instead, either way overtightening it is not good

deian · Post by **deian** » 13 May 2006, 22:18

brass? why did they use brass? is it because lhm does something to a steel ball bearing?

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 13 May 2006, 22:24

Calm down please it is a steel ball all right - and LHM is no worse than ordinary engine oil - because LHM is mineral oil based

LHM = Liquide Hydraulique Minerale