Still harsh ride :-(

[deian]

Hi guys, me again with the same old problems?

OK I know I've had advice that all seems ok, but to me I still feel a harsh ride... Driving at moderate speeds on A and B roads I feel the thunk thunk when going over bumps and over potholes too harsh for what 'should' be a smooth ride!

Those who follow my thread may remember that I fixed the hard ride problem, and I thought it was that, but it seems to me the harshness is still there.

So I'm after some advice as to other techniques to diagnose air in the system other than obviously the visual checks on the pipes (which/what pipe(s) is it?).

Can I put the car on low, and open the bleed valve on the regulator to bleed the air? OR do this on normal height. How long for. Can I also lower the car, then raise it up to max height and then look for bubbles in the LHM fluid in the resevoir as it raises up (pressurising would show bubbles/froth right)?

Another idea is... the pump? what exactly is it supposed to sound like, I assume the weird star bolts circling it are it's cylinders 6 of them yea, would it be an idea to check the tightness of these? And the pipes going in/out of them? I have two metal pipes out and one rubber one in. The one closest to the belt has some grime around it, it's always been like this to me.

This is doing my head in now. Something else I want to ask regarding this is... would air in the brakes cause these symptoms? Do I need to bleed the brakes? Any ideas guys. The speheres all seem in a reasonable condition, they bounce down then up well, more with door open etc.

Thanks.

[Homer]

Can I put the car on low, and open the bleed valve on the regulator to bleed the air? OR do this on normal height.

No.

To bleed the air from the suspension you do citaerobics, move the car gradually from low to high and back again a dozen or more times. Stop at each setting for a few seconds.

Turning the "bleed" screw (it's not a bleed screw, only Haynes think it is) just releases pressure from the system.

[deian]

i do citrobeaotics all the time though, this is what i don't get

[howiedean]

Hi guys, me again with the same old problems?

OK I know I've had advice that all seems ok, but to me I still feel a harsh ride... Driving at moderate speeds on A and B roads I feel the thunk thunk when going over bumps and over potholes too harsh for what 'should' be a smooth ride!

Those who follow my thread may remember that I fixed the hard ride problem, and I thought it was that, but it seems to me the harshness is still there.

So I'm after some advice as to other techniques to diagnose air in the system other than obviously the visual checks on the pipes (which/what pipe(s) is it?).

Can I put the car on low, and open the bleed valve on the regulator to bleed the air? OR do this on normal height. How long for. Can I also lower the car, then raise it up to max height and then look for bubbles in the LHM fluid in the resevoir as it raises up (pressurising would show bubbles/froth right)?

Another idea is... the pump? what exactly is it supposed to sound like, I assume the weird star bolts circling it are it's cylinders 6 of them yea, would it be an idea to check the tightness of these? And the pipes going in/out of them? I have two metal pipes out and one rubber one in. The one closest to the belt has some grime around it, it's always been like this to me.

This is doing my head in now. Something else I want to ask regarding this is... would air in the brakes cause these symptoms? Do I need to bleed the brakes? Any ideas guys. The speheres all seem in a reasonable condition, they bounce down then up well, more with door open etc.

Thanks.

What spheres have you got fitted. I only ask as on my previous xantia estate I bought some Westroen spheres and they were very soft and smooth. My present xantia has got spheres from GSF and the ride is noticeably harder.

regards

[deian]

they are original citroen spheres, no idea how old they are, but they seem ok

[howiedean]

they are original citroen spheres, no idea how old they are, but they seem ok

I've not looked at your previous reports, It might be time to change those spheres.

[Richard Gallagher]

If you have air in the brake system then you will get unusual symptoms such as the rear of the car lifting when braking. Have you bled the brakes?

As sphere's lose their pressure very gradually its very difficult to tell how bad they are without a direct comparison of either another car of the same type or sphere pressure test.

I replaced sphere's after just 4 years and 22,000 miles as a 'test' and was surprised as to how much pressure the old ones had lost, especially as I always leave the car on its lowest setting (thereby reducing the pressure placed upon the sphere's) .

As far as the star/torx plugs on the pump, they are just plugs, provided they are not leaking then I would leave well alone.
I wouldn't think that the pump is the culprit, as long as it has the ability to pressurise the system enough to extinguish the stop light and you do not get stiff steering then the cause must be elsewhere.

I know a few contributors on this forum mention undoing the bleed valve on the pressure regulator to bleed air out of the system, I'm not personally convinced by that as as far as I'm aware it just depressurises the system, not vent it, (I've also not found that mentioned in ANY literature or training video's from Citroen).

I've read Simon's (Mandrakes) comments on my suggestion in an earlier post of yours to fitting 'softer' sphere's will ruin the handling of the car, but trust me it will not. I have done this to four Xantia's fitted with Hydractive suspension and will continue to do it to any further Xantia's that I buy. Bear in mind that Simon's comments are based upon fitting (softer, but what type?) sphere's to a car that by his OWN admission has numerous suspension 'problems'......... That may explain why his car apparently oscillated up and down, new roll bar/pitch sensor required ?

In that post I also mentioned that with softer sphere's the suspension will switch to firm quicker which Simon disputed on the basis that Hydractive suspension does not have a 'roll sensor'. Fair comment as far as the ECU is concerned, BUT Hydractive blocks also have within them a MECHANICAL anti-roll device (mechanical valve, non electric) which stops the LHM fluid running from side to side when the car corners. This obviously reduces the roll effect.

I'm not looking to get into an argument or dispute with anyone, hence the lack of a reply on the earlier post. I'm merely offering a solution to a problem which I've found works very well.

[deian]

yes i agree, they have a little ball bearing that travel in the direction of the roll to block the flow of fluid

not bled the brakes, will do tomorrow i guess, do i need to run the engine to bleed the brakes (for system pressure)?

new spheres soon i think.

[Richard Gallagher]

do i need to run the engine to bleed the brakes (for system pressure)?

Yes, put the suspension on high, then with the engine running either get an assistant to hold the brake pedal down (or wedge it) and bleed the brakes, (unsually starting at the front wheels).

[Peter.N.]

If you are only getting this harsh ride effect at low speed over small sharp bumps, it could be down to your tyres. Have you changed them lately or is the tread getting a bit thin? The flexibility and tread compound can have a marked affect on the ride. I have to travel along 1/4 mile of flinty forest track to reach the road and the ride on mine leaves a lot to be desired, its not so bad on the road but does react to small bumps at low speed, I only have a set of cheapy tyres on it which have done about 30k and wont seem to wear out, but I would trade some tyre life for more comfort. I recently drove an XM identical to mine fitted with Michelins, the difference in ride has to be tried to be believed, and I have a nearly new set of comfort spheres!

[bernie]

I've read Simon's (Mandrakes) comments on my suggestion in an earlier post of yours to fitting 'softer' sphere's will ruin the handling of the car, but trust me it will not. I have done this to four Xantia's fitted with Hydractive suspension and will continue to do it to any further Xantia's that I buy. Bear in mind that Simon's comments are based upon fitting (softer, but what type?) sphere's to a car that by his OWN admission has numerous suspension 'problems'......... That may explain why his car apparently oscillated up and down, new roll bar/pitch sensor required ?

In that post I also mentioned that with softer sphere's the suspension will switch to firm quicker which Simon disputed on the basis that Hydractive suspension does not have a 'roll sensor'. Fair comment as far as the ECU is concerned, BUT Hydractive blocks also have within them a MECHANICAL anti-roll device (mechanical valve, non electric) which stops the LHM fluid running from side to side when the car corners. This obviously reduces the roll effect.

I'm not looking to get into an argument or dispute with anyone, hence the lack of a reply on the earlier post. I'm merely offering a solution to a problem which I've found works very well.

Richard.
What spheres have you fitted to your HA2 Xantia's?

[deian]

i doubt it's the tyres, we talking thunk thunk over medium bumps/potholes think drains that have sunk an inch and a half or so or something or small kerbs like heights again half an inch or so, over medium speeds 30 - 50 mph

[AndersDK]

Deian -

You need to do basic suspension test.
But first be sure the Citaerobics is done extensively - and THEN the brakes are bled. Finally be sure the reservoir level is not low.

The basic supension test is done with engine off, doors shot and car left for at least one minute - to ensure it switches itself to hard mode - which is the resting/dorming position of the system.
In this condition the suspension should basically feels like any other car - when you jerk each corner at a time.
By the feel of it - you can quite easy judge if one corner - or one end (axle) - is harder than the rest of the suspension. If so - you have deflated sphere(s).

Now open the door and start the engine. It should be easy now by feeling that the car is noticeably softer at both ends - as now the suspension should be in soft mode. If not - then the associated hydractive center sphere is deflated - or the electrovalve does not switch it in.

There are lots of other ways testing it - but IMHO the above test is the simplest and does not involve other parts of the system which may also be in error.

The sphere types are found on various makers in this thread :
http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... highlight=

I urge you to sit down and track the part no's for the spheres - from all vendors - to be absolutely positive you get the right spheres right at the desk in the shop - not when you are at home with thenew spheres
Dont take any arguments that you can use any otehr type spheres "for better handling" or such. Go straight for the correct type no's as stamped on the spheres - not on the box.

[bernie]

i doubt it's the tyres, we talking thunk thunk over medium bumps/potholes think drains that have sunk an inch and a half or so or something or small kerbs like heights again half an inch or so, over medium speeds 30 - 50 mph

Exactly like mine!!!???!!!

[deian]

well i wouldn't say it's a comfortable thunk, it's enough to feel through and sometimes pull the steering wheel, i don't believe hydropneumatic should be so harsh on bad roads, from what i gather it should smooth out 50% of bumps, which mine clearly doesn't