to get softer soft ride?

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

Post Reply
deian
Posts: 1729
Joined: 26 Feb 2006, 10:53
Location:
My Cars:

to get softer soft ride?

Post by deian »

Hi forum,

To get a softer ride while retaining the rigidity of the hard mode can I put a centre sphere with a bigger hole in the middle? Would this technique work?

Thanks guys
User avatar
AndersDK
Posts: 6060
Joined: 21 Feb 2003, 04:56
Location: Denmark
My Cars:
x 1

Post by AndersDK »

Yes - but the soft ride disappears already at speeds from some 30Mph and up. You will only enjoy it coasting around town. At highway speed coasting its the rigid drive forever.
Wont help you playing with the button - the computer decides.

The downside is you get a more noticeable shift from soft to hard.

The hydractive (I or II) system can only change between 2 preset states. There is no possibility to have a variable soft/hard -ness. (like the C5 hydractive 3 system)
Anders (DK) - '90 BX16Image
deian
Posts: 1729
Joined: 26 Feb 2006, 10:53
Location:
My Cars:

Post by deian »

Goes hard after 30mph? :?

AndersDK! I never thought i'd disagree with you here, but since fixing my harsh ride (center sphere electrovalve not connected in front), i read about listening to the electrovalve on the radio LW 171 khz, when it's in soft mode you can hear it whirring down the radio, and when it goes to hard mode it goes off (it does what it should do, i've been playing with steering quick, accelerating, braking etc)... even when switching to sport mode, i hear the electrovalve go off sooner, a LOT more sensitive. And the ride is still soft after 30mph! I can even feel is wallowing about on uneven roads.

In my opinion it takes quite harsh driving to get it to switch to hard under my normal driving technique. This is why I thought of it you see, I like the difference, just a tiny bit softer would be spot on for me. And for me to drive hard enough to need the hard mode would be quite hard, and if it's not sensitive enough, i just flick the switch, brilliant stuff.

I'm not after the variable soft-hard ride like the C5, i'm after softer soft, and hard as it is. SO yes the difference would be a more noticeable difference, so the 'downside' you talk about is what i want to achieve 8)
User avatar
AndersDK
Posts: 6060
Joined: 21 Feb 2003, 04:56
Location: Denmark
My Cars:
x 1

Post by AndersDK »

:?:
- seems I need a hydractive in my hands to test it out :lol:
Anders (DK) - '90 BX16Image
deian
Posts: 1729
Joined: 26 Feb 2006, 10:53
Location:
My Cars:

Post by deian »

http://www.stevenbraud.demon.co.uk/manu ... ive_II.pdf

go figure... quite clever stuff really 8)

The meat of that manual is in the tables that tell when and how the computer decides when to switch to hard and then back to soft mode. I've spent a fair few hours disecting it :shock:

So back to the centre spheres... is there any type i could fit that would make it softer, i.e a sphere with a bigger hole, more cc, etc? Please don't shy away now, I know you know this kind of stuff AndersDK. Refering to the GSF sphere tables won't work, i need specialist knowledge here. Do all the spheres have the same thread to screw them on?

Thanks
f00lzz
Posts: 795
Joined: 28 Mar 2006, 19:30
Location: Sutton Coldfield, West Midlands. UK
My Cars:

Post by f00lzz »

Experience with my Hydractive is similar... you really have to be doing some 'serious' driving to make it firm up. I have been considering going to 'comfort' spheres on my non-hyrdactive as I use it for work only which is about 200 miles per day of motorway/dual carriageway driving... depending on the results I might try it on the Hydractive Xantia.
Ian
Account Ref: 6419

Current Cars
Nissan X-Trail SVE
Saab 2.2TiD
Merc E270 Estate

Past Citroens
2001 Xantia 3.0 Exclusive
1999 Xantia 1.9TD
1997 Xantia 3.0 Exclusive
1995 XM 3.0 Exclusive Estate
Richard Gallagher
Posts: 803
Joined: 31 Oct 2001, 02:36
Location: South Bucks
My Cars:

Post by Richard Gallagher »

If you are looking for a softer ride than you could do what I've done and that is to fit sphere's for a non Hydractive Xantia, to your Hydractive one. In my case I use the ones specified for a TD/2.0 which have a larger centre hole which allows the LHM to run in/out of the sphere quicker. The Hydractive sphere's are standard fit.

Whilst some may disagree with my decision, I've made this alteration on a 2.0CT Turbo estate, a 2.0 16V and 2 TD's including the one I've still got and I swear by it.

For me PERSONALLY, it makes a huge difference and I highly recommend it to anyone looking for a smoother ride. Bear in mind that I do not use my Xantia to charge around like a loony (I get paid to do that at work in their cars. Legally, I might add :D ).

However what I would say is that with Hydractive, the computer does now switch in earlier on the twisties (because of the sensors on the roll bars etc) which prevents the car getting out of shape.

If however you prefer to thrash around feeling every little pebble underfoot then its not for you.

Suspension settings will always be a compromise, you pays your money etc etc.

By the way all sphere's AFAIK have the same thread.
Berlingo Multispace 05 1.6 HDI
Picasso 02 HDI SX
Xantia 97 TD VSX
Xantia 96 Activa
Homer
Posts: 1503
Joined: 26 Feb 2003, 10:52
Location: Yorkshire
My Cars: Current:
Volvo V60 D4 180

Previous:
BX16RS (two of),
BX19TZI,
Xantia 2.0i saloon,
Xantia 2.0 Exclusive CT turbo Break,
Peugeot 807 2.0 HDi 110,
Renault Grand Scenic, 2.0 diesel (150bhp)
C5 X7 2.0 HDi 160 which put me off French cars possibly forever
x 16

Post by Homer »

AndersDK wrote::?:
- seems I need a hydractive in my hands to test it out :lol:
Yep.

From experience it's only in permanent hard mode from around 60mph (100kph), anything below that and you notice it switching from soft to hard as you accelerate or steer.

Blatting round the Scottish highlands at 70+ it seemed to stay in hard mode. (for legal reasons this was more than 6 months ago :wink: )
deian
Posts: 1729
Joined: 26 Feb 2006, 10:53
Location:
My Cars:

Post by deian »

richard... do u mean non hydractive all round?

doing that will make the harder side softer too yea, which is why i want to change the centre sphere (hydractive only), because this is what makes the soft ride in the soft mode soft.
citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Post by citroenxm »

I must agree with every one.. unless I have a fault on the XM..

A nice softish ride at ANY speed, even when cornering it leans more but switch on hyractive system and I can feel a firmness ALL the time and with cornering..

This is in a Series 1.5 XM, V6 12 valve 1993 year...

I put some spheres with a Carpet Tack size hole in them on a Hydractive Xantia VSX last week... Result! Softness so much you could bounce onto the bump stops.. I'm not all to convinced that Normal mode decides for its self..?? :? :?

Regards
citroenxm
citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Post by citroenxm »

I must agree with every one.. unless I have a fault on the XM..

A nice softish ride at ANY speed, even when cornering it leans more but switch on hyractive system and I can feel a firmness ALL the time and with cornering..

This is in a Series 1.5 XM, V6 12 valve 1993 year...

I put some spheres with a Carpet Tack size hole in them on a Hydractive Xantia VSX last week... Result! Softness so much you could bounce onto the bump stops.. I'm not all to convinced that Normal mode decides for its self..?? :? :?

Regards
citroenxm
deian
Posts: 1729
Joined: 26 Feb 2006, 10:53
Location:
My Cars:

Post by deian »

oh but the sport switch makes a lot of difference on the hydractive 2 8)
citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Post by citroenxm »

Well yes Deian,

I'm pretty certain XM has Hydractive 2... It makes a nice difference..

:? :lol:
deian
Posts: 1729
Joined: 26 Feb 2006, 10:53
Location:
My Cars:

Post by deian »

yes paul, i've seen it remember! 8) i will have to pop over so you can see the difference that electrovalve not being connected has made to the ride in my car, magic carpet indeed.

and about the normal mode not deciding for itself, tune to LW 171KHz on the radio and you can hear the electrovalve, open the doors to test what you are hearing first. It works!

i wonder if it would be possible to put a two colour LED on my hydractive2 switch to show the whether the suspension is in soft or hard.... let me explain how i intend it to would work

the led would work as normal, but the led would change colour depending on the suspension mode...
we all know the switch just makes the sensors more sensitive...

so in the off position, when the suspension goes hard, the led would glow orange, then go off when back in soft mode,

and in the on position, (led green), the led would change colour to orange when it's in hard mode.

Easy enough? In theory it's possible, i don't see why not, I could read the signals from the hydractive computer to the electrovalve, and wire it into the switch, but put a different LED in it.

Apparently there is a diagnositc computer for the hydractive computer that can read all the inputs and outputs, and display then in real time. Oh the possibilites. Something else what would be cool would be to get readings from various points in the hydraulic system of the pressures, and display then dynamically. Of course this is a lot harder.

But what do you think of my switch idea guys?
Richard Gallagher
Posts: 803
Joined: 31 Oct 2001, 02:36
Location: South Bucks
My Cars:

Post by Richard Gallagher »

deian wrote:richard... do u mean non hydractive all round?

doing that will make the harder side softer too yea, which is why i want to change the centre sphere (hydractive only), because this is what makes the soft ride in the soft mode soft.
I've taken a different approach to your line of thinking, after looking at the specifications of the standard fit sphere's.

On Hydractive front sphere's the damper hole is 0.6mm diameter compared with non-Hydractive (TD/2.0) being 1.5mm.

Rear Hydractive is 0.5mm, non-Hydractive 1.0mm.

The volume of all is the same @ 400cc.

The pressure in bars is the same at the rear (30) whereas non Hydractive front sphere's are 55 bar compared with 50 for Hydractive. Bear in mind however that both those figures are quoted as having a variation of +5 to -20. All of the above data is direct from the genuine Citroen workshop manual.

So, getting back to the point, with standard fit Hydractive sphere's the ride can (to people like me :lol: ) feel a little on the firm side at times, so I replaced the four strut sphere's (normally Hydractive sphere's with 0.5mm + 0.6mm diameter damper holes) with non Hydractive sphere's which have 1.5mm + 1.0mm damper holes.

The centre Hyractive sphere's are standard fit.

The basis for my line of thinking is that I now have a really soft, comfortable ride, but should I have a 'mad moment', then the ECU will switch to firm due to the various sensors on the suspension and give a ride/roll control similar to non Hydractive suspension. This is on the basis that the centre (Hydractive) sphere's are taken out of the circuit when the the ECU switches to firm.

However I realise that the car will have a little more roll (compared to a non Hydractive version) due to the initial delay in it switching over but in reality I find it works very well.

One factor you have to put in the equation is that you cannot keep going for softer and softer sphere's because the suspension will run out of available movement resulting in bouncing off the bumpstops etc.
Berlingo Multispace 05 1.6 HDI
Picasso 02 HDI SX
Xantia 97 TD VSX
Xantia 96 Activa
Post Reply