xantia electric hydraulic pump?

deian · Post by **deian** » 23 Apr 2006, 21:32

what are the possibilities here? of having an all electric hydraulic pump?

i understand it would shift the load from the engine driven hydraulic pump to the alternator therefore back to engine, but would it be more reliable? or wear sooner? would we need a big pump?

i'm thinking of this because the the C5 and the C6 have electric pumps don't they. are they silent? i know the electric pumps on the 405 Mi16x4 aren't exactly quiet, but they do work well. And so does the electric pump on the injection moulder at work, now thats a BIG motor!!! as big as an engine, and pretty quiet for it's size.

Just an idea. Discuss. 8)

Thanks

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 23 Apr 2006, 21:48

Unless you have always had a hankering to coast downhill with the engine turned off why bother?

I can understand modifying cars to go faster, stop better, look different, provide a picnic table on the boot, but to change the power source of a pump - ?

mpr1956 · Post by **mpr1956** » 23 Apr 2006, 22:01

One of the methods of raising a HP Cit with a duff engine is to use a drill (electric or cordless) positioned with the pump drive belt on the chuck or large bit.. then squeeze the trigger and hang on so as to pressurise the system. An electrical pump drive could probably be fashioned on this principle.. perhaps with an hydraulic/electrical pressure switch actuating the pump drive when required. However, given that electrical faults are reputed to cause the most breakdowns, a mod like this could be a backward step when the standard (pre-hydractive)system is quite amazing in its simplicity. An interesting idea though.. could work really well for a trailer. I wonder if anbody has modded their bx or xant? Martin.. 93 tdsx

406 V6 · Post by **406 V6** » 23 Apr 2006, 22:26

C5/C6s have an integrated hydraulic block, which incorporates the electrovalves which in turn do what HC did, plus a small ACC and the electronic brain. And it's silent, you only hear a small whirr standing outside the car.
I sincerily only see the use of an electric pump for a trailer, as mentioned, or as a fail safe mechanism.

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 23 Apr 2006, 23:35

You ever tried turning the pump by hand - using a socket and a ratchet ?
It is scaring how much force you need to turn the pump when the PR is close to its cut-off pressure value.
Its not just an old wiper motor & gear that can do that. You need something much more powerful.
The powerdrill mentioned above literally needs to be a "power"-drill.
The pump takes something like 0.5BHp average and 1.5BHp peak off the engine to be driven.

My guess the later type C5 electric pump is driven by some smaller motor with a rather large gear ratio.

deian · Post by **deian** » 24 Apr 2006, 17:30

I wonder how long the motors will last before they give up? We need to remember the C5 is quite a new car and hasn't been 'tested' as long as the Xantia.

To be honest with you I don't know why I thought of it, but why did Citroen think of it for the C5? And can the advantages of the idea work on a Xantia? There must be pro's and con's of both.

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 24 Apr 2006, 18:23

The use of a hydraulic control & feed block on the C5 IMHO is a natural development on cost reduction. Its much simpler to have most of the hydraulic gadgets in a box and fit it where applicable. Also using electric sensors and wiring instead of mechanical links saves a lot on the production line - with less - or nil - calibrations.

The contra's are more "sophisticated" fault tracing when the system fails. Ghost problems because of water & corrosion in the electrics. We all know how french cars are build in the electrics - dont we

You can not make a monkey mechanic repair the system, and he would just love to make a meal on you replacing the hydraulic unit - because "it aint working properly mate - whatsit dangling around down here - you fiddling with a stereo - ah? "

howiedean · Post by **howiedean** » 24 Apr 2006, 21:16

mpr1956 wrote:One of the methods of raising a HP Cit with a duff engine is to use a drill (electric or cordless) positioned with the pump drive belt on the chuck or large bit.. then squeeze the trigger and hang on so as to pressurise the system. An electrical pump drive could probably be fashioned on this principle.. perhaps with an hydraulic/electrical pressure switch actuating the pump drive when required. However, given that electrical faults are reputed to cause the most breakdowns, a mod like this could be a backward step when the standard (pre-hydractive)system is quite amazing in its simplicity. An interesting idea though.. could work really well for a trailer. I wonder if anbody has modded their bx or xant? Martin.. 93 tdsx

Bugger I was trying to work out how to do this as there was a very nice looking blue Xantia HDI estate on ebay that went for £250!!!!
It had an engine problem but I did'nt buy it because I'd never have got it on a trailer

Regards