I'm sure this has been covered here before, though I've not found it in the search listings. My Ma's 1996 Xantia 2.0i VSX is now showing lethargy in actually steering assistance on turning with hard or minor inputs. Guess it points to loss of the power assistance.
Thing is, the car has had a hydraflush and was run for the time period required BUT was then left for a few months unused before the fluid was changed to the full-fat stuff! The car has had a new accumulator and all the belts have been renewed.
I must confess with all the other jobs on the go I haven't looked to see if there's a filter actually on the steering rack or maybe the problem lies in the rack's ram itself? The car never loses any fluid when used or parked laid up!!
It's a terrible waste of a superb car but the ABS light has foxed everyone by steadfastly refusing to go off despite all best efforts. The start up sequence sees it's usual routine and goes off when the charging circuit is operating BUT the light comes on at 15-mph. The sensors are reading 100%, all the car's loom and earths have been fettled. When the car is showing the light and running I can take a meter reading of any sensor and or the ECU and I've never found a spurious reading. I don't have a fault code reader and must profess I'd rather change a clutch/engine out than mess about in this area of the car...
Any suggestions/ideas about these gripes would be welcome as the MOT is overdue now and I'm tired of looking at the car's innards!!
TTFN,
Andrew
Xantia heavy steering & ABS...
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The power steering issue.... My first suspect would be a weak pump. Is the pump known to be good? and do you have a spare you can try?
As for the ABS.. have you tried the audio method of testing the sensors? It can be very revealing. I still have a problem with the ABS on my 405, but found the problem by listening to the wheel sensor while driving. If all the sensors are absolutely perfect, then I would start looking at the ECU. Maybe try a breakers yard ECU?
As for the ABS.. have you tried the audio method of testing the sensors? It can be very revealing. I still have a problem with the ABS on my 405, but found the problem by listening to the wheel sensor while driving. If all the sensors are absolutely perfect, then I would start looking at the ECU. Maybe try a breakers yard ECU?
This is not a signature.
The sensors may indicate perfect condition on an ohm meter. But are they mechanically fitted correct after a replacement ? If they dont reach close enough to the hub's cogg - they wont supply a signal ...
F&F method listening to the sensors becomes more and more a necessity ...
BTW ohms checked at the ABS ECU multi connector ? - or lower down the wheels ?
Schematic on Xantia ABS :
http://citroeny.cz/prispevky/p6/p6.htm
The power steering issue is a mystery as the Hydracleanse will never detoriate system performance. My universal bet is a leaky feed hose reservoir to pump. As the 6piston part of the pump really have to do some labour for the power steering - it will also be the first to noticeably go down on power if air gets into the pump.
Have you actually checked the LHM level lately ? (always try simple things first !)
F&F method listening to the sensors becomes more and more a necessity ...
BTW ohms checked at the ABS ECU multi connector ? - or lower down the wheels ?
Schematic on Xantia ABS :
http://citroeny.cz/prispevky/p6/p6.htm
The power steering issue is a mystery as the Hydracleanse will never detoriate system performance. My universal bet is a leaky feed hose reservoir to pump. As the 6piston part of the pump really have to do some labour for the power steering - it will also be the first to noticeably go down on power if air gets into the pump.
Have you actually checked the LHM level lately ? (always try simple things first !)
Anders (DK) - '90 BX16Image
The ABS ECU checks the system at startup - while the light is on - and indicates that all is well by extinguishing the light. When the car is on the move it continues to monitor the system - and if it finds something wrong - like an incorrect signal from a wheel sensor - it will shut down and put the warning light on.
If the light comes on while the car is being driven it is likely to be a wheel sensor problem. The signals from the sensors are very weak (about the same as a microphone - some of which are rather similar in function) and so if your wheel sensor is not in the correct position - ie not close enough to the toothed wheel it will not give the correct signal and the system will shut down.
When you thing of it - this is all it can do - otherwise you have a sensor activating the ABS on one front wheel only which is probably more likely to kill you than no system at all.
Your initial intermittent fault was probably cable damage - and probably the screen - caused either by excessive cable flexing or corrosion caused by the outer layer of insulation becoming porous.
For the sake of completion of this description - when the brakes are applied the ECU switches from monitoring to its active phase and then monitors the behaviour of the wheel sensors with a view to operating the valve block should one wheel stop turning while the others still are.
Certainly for a BX Haynes lists sensor - toothed wheel clearances.
If the light comes on while the car is being driven it is likely to be a wheel sensor problem. The signals from the sensors are very weak (about the same as a microphone - some of which are rather similar in function) and so if your wheel sensor is not in the correct position - ie not close enough to the toothed wheel it will not give the correct signal and the system will shut down.
When you thing of it - this is all it can do - otherwise you have a sensor activating the ABS on one front wheel only which is probably more likely to kill you than no system at all.
Your initial intermittent fault was probably cable damage - and probably the screen - caused either by excessive cable flexing or corrosion caused by the outer layer of insulation becoming porous.
For the sake of completion of this description - when the brakes are applied the ECU switches from monitoring to its active phase and then monitors the behaviour of the wheel sensors with a view to operating the valve block should one wheel stop turning while the others still are.
Certainly for a BX Haynes lists sensor - toothed wheel clearances.
jeremy
Update
Righto! Thanks guys - your input here has jogged a few things into action!!
I NOW know and have proven where the fault lies with both of these Xantia issues!!
Just have to action their rectification when it eventually stops raining for the 3 hours available every week/month!
The BIG problem, the ABS, which has been the main bugbear has actually been the cause of the stiff steering, albeit indirectly!
About midway through last year the Xantia became another of those automatics that can only get drive in REVERSE. Yep, the forward drive clutch bands decided enough was enough at 100k!! So after a while fretting about what to do I went and did the rational thing and bought a NEW yes, NEW automatic gearbox from a Citroen specialist on ebay of all places!! Works a treat. The "full works" was done to the car when all it's innards were strewn about the place such as the big "important" bits'n bushes, belts fluids etc etc...
At this point I could have kept schtum BUT to share this with one and all and to my eternal shame and embarrasment I'll have to admit to being a bit of plant pot!
To get to the point
as part of this process I changed the original 100k mile driveshafts with those bought from a very low mileage identical car from a Citroen Specialist...
Yep, guessed right, not identical enough it seems.
Found out today when I had a savvy local Citroen Indy check the car out - should have done so in the first place but I resist as strongly as possible any attempts to part me from my hard earned except under extreme duress!!
Having had a good 'go' at the car first and taking into account all suggestions here I was more tuned in to the problem before it went in to have it's Citscan!!
Yes, it seems you guys were bang on with the air gap criticality for the ABS sensors!! Big cigars all round then!!
8)
Seems Citroen had a massive and rather spectacular spate of CV joints EXPLODING
where they failed rather dramatically in the earlier part of '95. The design engineers were sent back into the back room to resharpen their pencils!!
The resultant rejig of the outer CV joint means there's a difference in a fatter more meat for your money circumference and ABS sensor length!!
The old driveshafts are flavour of the moment again!!
OK, well, due to the car being out of favour with it's non ABS braking [I KNOW, but you're not my father!!
] the car sat in all the elements waiting for the MOT and tax to expire. The joke is the ABS light doing silly buggers didn't seem an issue after the car was back up and running in rude health with it's spangly new gearbox!! The second my Ma decided she'd use it more frequently again as she loves driving it, it was decided ANOTHER Xantia would be better...
[And I sometimes wonder why I have more than one car!!]
THE STEERING COLUMN UNIVERSAL JOINT HAS MANAGED TO SIEZE UP DUE TO INNACTIVITY!!
Simple as that, checked this out with the Cit guy when the car was up in the air on one of those fancy 2 post car lifts [I KNOW what I WANT for Christmas!!] and it was totally duff. Duditious lubricating with oil and sweat got the steering resembling a proper Xantia's again!!
Job's a good' un!!
All the best to one and all, Andrew
I NOW know and have proven where the fault lies with both of these Xantia issues!!
Just have to action their rectification when it eventually stops raining for the 3 hours available every week/month!
The BIG problem, the ABS, which has been the main bugbear has actually been the cause of the stiff steering, albeit indirectly!
About midway through last year the Xantia became another of those automatics that can only get drive in REVERSE. Yep, the forward drive clutch bands decided enough was enough at 100k!! So after a while fretting about what to do I went and did the rational thing and bought a NEW yes, NEW automatic gearbox from a Citroen specialist on ebay of all places!! Works a treat. The "full works" was done to the car when all it's innards were strewn about the place such as the big "important" bits'n bushes, belts fluids etc etc...
At this point I could have kept schtum BUT to share this with one and all and to my eternal shame and embarrasment I'll have to admit to being a bit of plant pot!
To get to the point
as part of this process I changed the original 100k mile driveshafts with those bought from a very low mileage identical car from a Citroen Specialist...Yep, guessed right, not identical enough it seems.
Found out today when I had a savvy local Citroen Indy check the car out - should have done so in the first place but I resist as strongly as possible any attempts to part me from my hard earned except under extreme duress!!
Having had a good 'go' at the car first and taking into account all suggestions here I was more tuned in to the problem before it went in to have it's Citscan!!
Yes, it seems you guys were bang on with the air gap criticality for the ABS sensors!! Big cigars all round then!!
8) Seems Citroen had a massive and rather spectacular spate of CV joints EXPLODING
where they failed rather dramatically in the earlier part of '95. The design engineers were sent back into the back room to resharpen their pencils!!The resultant rejig of the outer CV joint means there's a difference in a fatter more meat for your money circumference and ABS sensor length!!
The old driveshafts are flavour of the moment again!!
OK, well, due to the car being out of favour with it's non ABS braking [I KNOW, but you're not my father!!
] the car sat in all the elements waiting for the MOT and tax to expire. The joke is the ABS light doing silly buggers didn't seem an issue after the car was back up and running in rude health with it's spangly new gearbox!! The second my Ma decided she'd use it more frequently again as she loves driving it, it was decided ANOTHER Xantia would be better...[And I sometimes wonder why I have more than one car!!]
THE STEERING COLUMN UNIVERSAL JOINT HAS MANAGED TO SIEZE UP DUE TO INNACTIVITY!!
Simple as that, checked this out with the Cit guy when the car was up in the air on one of those fancy 2 post car lifts [I KNOW what I WANT for Christmas!!] and it was totally duff. Duditious lubricating with oil and sweat got the steering resembling a proper Xantia's again!!
Job's a good' un!!
All the best to one and all, Andrew