Help labelling the appendages of my new bosch injector pump

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JohnTurbo
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Help labelling the appendages of my new bosch injector pump

Post by JohnTurbo »

Recently bought two injector pumps, both bosch, and they are very different. I wish to fit one to my Xantia...but want to know what the various bits are so i can choose the most suitable..

One is off a 1992 405, and looks very much like the old cav pump, just with the cold start jobby on the other side, the other one is supposedly off a Xantia!

The other one looks more like this..

Image

- only it has even more rubbish! The extra bits are:-

1) the big alloy thing on top, as seen in the picture

2) As you look att he pump as if its on an engine...theres a diamond shaped blanking plate on the 405 one...on the xantia one theres a protruding alloy bit with a wire on one side, and a thin pipe on the other.

3) Xantia pump has a microswitch positioned next to the alloy thing mentioned in (1)

4) on the pipe end...theres a plate with a blue and a black connector....black sends a wire down to (2), and two wires to a connection above the pipes.

Blue-> two wires up to (3)

Think my lucas on my (none turbo) 93' xantia only has a couple of wires....so is the simple one best?

Also have bosch injectors off a 405 and they're bosch 130bar...thought they were meant to be 185?

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated. I'm great with petrol, but this diesel lark is far to bizarre!!

John
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Post by Peter.N. »

I may be able to help with one or two of your queries but not all.

The '92, 405 pump will probably be for the smaller 1760? cc engine, so will need adjusting for your engine (more fuel).

The pump with the micro switch will be from a later engine with EGR.

If you use a Bosch pump in place of a CAV pump, or vice versa, you will also have to change the injector pipes, although they can be bent to fit, the timing will be wrong as the output pipe positions dont correspond.

You will also find a fitting for a vacuum pipe, but as yours is non turbo this is not needed.
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Post by JohnTurbo »

oh jese, that sounds irritating. How do you increase fuelling? This is turning into a nightmare...
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Post by JohnTurbo »

- just checked, my 405 pump is indeed from a 1.9...so thats not an issue, though i'm wondering about the injectors..
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Re: Help labelling the appendages of my new bosch injector p

Post by AndersDK »

JohnTurbo wrote: Any guidance would be greatly appreciated. I'm great with petrol, but this diesel lark is far to bizarre!!
Well -

Diesel engines works with an entirely different combustion process than petrol. Thats why all pet engine experience is worth nowt on such a creature ...

Apart from the obvious fuel sucking inlet and the 4 timed pressurised injector outputs - the Bosch pump basically has these main externals :

1) A cold start device - which in no way is comparable to a pet choke. It does not enrichen fuel. Instead it alters the injection timing and somewhat the engine idle speed. This is to prevent the cold engine stalling.
The cold start can be activated mechanically by a bowden cable from a thermo device or from a vacuum capsule.
Looks like the latter is exactly one of your questions.
Sometimes the mechanical coldstart device also controls a switch which in turn controls a corrector solonoid.

2) A fuel shut-off solonoid. This is the only means of stopping a diesel engine : cut the fuel supply (or obviously stalling the engine). Therefore an electrovalve is fitted inline with the fuel supply on the pump. The valve must be constantly feeded by +12V over the ignition switch while engine running (& starting).
Later types have build on electronic antitheft device exactly on this valve to prevent theft starting. By nature this is a very sturdy build-on with hardened steel etc.

3) A fuel enrichener controller - controlled by intercooler air pressure - to boost fuel when turbo pressure increases. Would look like a vacuum device.

4) Any auxillary device to control the idle speed in case of automatic gearbox, aircondition etc. This will most likely work on the acc arm idle rest.

Adjusting such a creature is however rather easy - assuming everything is working correct :

Coldstart is simply adjusted for elevated idle at cold engine - to some 1050rpm.
Idle is adjusted - with hot engine only - by adjusting the acc arm rest to some 850rpm
There would be a fuel volume set screw on the pump too. This should be locked to prevent fiddling with the fuel volume. Only on calibrating a pump for new applicatiuons it should be necessary to adjust this.
This is because even the slightest over-setting on this will make the engine a slow carbon producer (as seen in your rearview mirror).

You MUST have the injectors that were used with the pump you've got. You can NOT swap Bosch & CAV injectors.
The injectors are calibrated to work with the pump they are designed for.
Also this means that injectors/pumps from turbo and non-turbo can not be swapped.
Pumps & injectors same make from same engine types (i.e. a bosch pump for non-turbo 1.9L engine) should swap no problems.
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Post by Kowalski »

The big alloy thing on top of the pump is the enrichment device, it allows more fuel when the turbo is producing pressure, the pump pictured is for a turbo diesel engine.

Basically if I were you I'd stick to the pump closest to the one you already have. The turbo pump will be calibrated for a turbo engine, it'll need adjustment to get the right amount of fuel being injected, you'll either find that you're very slow (most likely) or very smokey. The injectors have to be matched to the injector pump, the bosch pumps use higher rated injectors, the turbo bosch being the highest.

This post may be of some help... http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... hp?t=17476

This post has a picture of the newer bosch pump (96 on engine with EGR and Catalyst)
http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... hp?t=17948
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Post by dieseldes1 »

Also if you are swapping a different pump, make sure you take the injection pipe work as you can end up with the timing 45 deg out, :oops: And you can guess how I know that!!

Actually not my car but I was involved in the changeover , that was a 205 engine being put in a BXgti, (don't ask :shock: ) and the original pump was a CAV and was replaced with a bosch off a 405 or was it the other way round :? , real bitsa job!!

So after a new head gasket, it was a mite advanced the first time round....we changed the pipes.... we didn't change the injectors, we reckoned as the pressures of the bosch and cav overlapped it wouldn't matter............And it ran OK for a couple of years until it was scrapped :D
And this was supposed to be a cheap car to get my mates friend back on his feet! ah well the end justifies the means, I suppose.

The injectors are easy to change and if you are getting that far down it would be easy to do.

Memo to me... don't get involved with helping a friend help his friend as you will end up being on call!!
C5 2L 90hp estate 2001 118,000
Peugot 2L HDI 2000 82,000
Xantia 2 1.9TD Estate 1998 100,000 'oops' does not mate with BMW
Xantia 1.9TD saloon 1996 120,000 Sold
Honda CB450dx 1990
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JohnTurbo
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Post by JohnTurbo »

Ahhh yes, turbo....that makes sense. I'll stick to the 405 one then i think, and throw this insanely complicated lump on ebay. I suppose a vacuum tube is less complicated than the plethora of sensors and computers required to make my petrol turbo volvo work.

I have got the pipework, and pulley...thank god.
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Post by Peter.N. »

The max fuel setting on the Bosch pump is fairly easy to adjust, its a screw on the end of the pump just above the injector pipe connections, but it may not need adjusting if its from a 1.9td. The fuel - boost pressure part of the pump will be inoperative as its a non turbo, so you should get away with just fitting that pump. I also have had the experience of fitting a Bosch pump in place of a CAV and not being able to start it, until I changed the pipes! But, as previous post said, the Bosch pump worked OK for me with the CAV injectors
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