Hiya,
Rear ride quality on my Xantia is not very good despite replacing the rear spheres. After raising the car to its highest position then dropping it back down, its great for a little bit, then goes hard again. This leads me to beleive its a pressure related problem.
Since I got the car in June, the pump (Fitted new only just before I bought the car) has clicked constantly, which I'm told means the accumulator is on its way out. I'm assuming this is what's causing the problem with the hard suspension, so I've picked up a new accumulator and plan to fit it over the weekend.
Does anyone have any tips on how to do it easily and with minimal hassle? Best way to get it off etc? Also the seal - does it go around the sphere itself, or is it placed in the actual pipe thing the sphere is screwed onto?
Also, will I need any LHM (Level is fine at the moment), or will it not leak if it done properly?
Cheers!
1994 Citroen Xantia SX 1.9 Turbo Diesel
147,500 miles
Replacing Accumulator Sphere
Moderator: RichardW
Sorry you are right the rear centre one is the Anti-sink, and the front centre one is the Accumulatur.Not difficult working on the front spheres. Go to "problems with my Xantia" by Robbie,on the 28th November 2002.All you Sphere Problems are answered in detail there,regarding depressurising etc .
Edited by - jmd on 30 Nov 2002 00:30:44
Edited by - jmd on 30 Nov 2002 00:45:33
Edited by - jmd on 30 Nov 2002 00:48:24
Edited by - jmd on 30 Nov 2002 00:30:44
Edited by - jmd on 30 Nov 2002 00:45:33
Edited by - jmd on 30 Nov 2002 00:48:24
Ten minute job.
Ramps / Stands / Pit to gain access to the front.
12mm spanner to slightly undo the bolt next to the accumulator - hissing sound.
Strong oil filter wrench ( or even better, a sphere tool ) to undo the sphere.
Take the seal out ( may fall out )
Smear new one with lhm and put into the mounting BEFORE the sphere.
Put the new sphere on.
Start engine, gently tighten the bleed screw.
Top up the LHM ( should be no more than .5l loss if any )
Perform some suspension aerobics.
Job done.
I'd take the opportunity to bleed the brakes at the same time though.
Ramps / Stands / Pit to gain access to the front.
12mm spanner to slightly undo the bolt next to the accumulator - hissing sound.
Strong oil filter wrench ( or even better, a sphere tool ) to undo the sphere.
Take the seal out ( may fall out )
Smear new one with lhm and put into the mounting BEFORE the sphere.
Put the new sphere on.
Start engine, gently tighten the bleed screw.
Top up the LHM ( should be no more than .5l loss if any )
Perform some suspension aerobics.
Job done.
I'd take the opportunity to bleed the brakes at the same time though.
Fox,
The accumulator sphere sounds as though it's cactus by the sounds of the frequency of the ticking.
I can't speak for a Xantia but a BX is in a ^&^&)** of a spot and very hard to get access with a sphere removing tool but I've found a piece of rubber or if you have a wife who has done her share of Tupperware parties, a rubber piece used to remove lids off jars works a treat ("No dear, I haven't a clue what that black greasy looking stuff is on your jar lid remover....it smells like LHM?? Geez you're right it does too...what have you been using it on???")
Others have covered the removal & replacing of spheres pretty well & any further info should be found on the archives or via a "search." However, don't expect the accumulator to affect the ride; it won't!!
I'd suggest a couple of things. Possibly a sticky height corrector or linkages to it, tightening of the rear swing arm bearings or air in the hydraulic system. I'd suggest you check them in that order as I really think the height corrector could be your prime suspect.
Alan S
The accumulator sphere sounds as though it's cactus by the sounds of the frequency of the ticking.
I can't speak for a Xantia but a BX is in a ^&^&)** of a spot and very hard to get access with a sphere removing tool but I've found a piece of rubber or if you have a wife who has done her share of Tupperware parties, a rubber piece used to remove lids off jars works a treat ("No dear, I haven't a clue what that black greasy looking stuff is on your jar lid remover....it smells like LHM?? Geez you're right it does too...what have you been using it on???")
Others have covered the removal & replacing of spheres pretty well & any further info should be found on the archives or via a "search." However, don't expect the accumulator to affect the ride; it won't!!
I'd suggest a couple of things. Possibly a sticky height corrector or linkages to it, tightening of the rear swing arm bearings or air in the hydraulic system. I'd suggest you check them in that order as I really think the height corrector could be your prime suspect.
Alan S
Might also be worth actually checking the ride height at the rear..
As Alan says, check the rear arms for loose bearings, also look from the back on high suspension for the wheels looking like /--Also, which nobody has mentioned - what tyre size are you running, and what pressures ?
Mat.
Edited by - mbunting on 30 Nov 2002 11:48:34
As Alan says, check the rear arms for loose bearings, also look from the back on high suspension for the wheels looking like /--Also, which nobody has mentioned - what tyre size are you running, and what pressures ?
Mat.
Edited by - mbunting on 30 Nov 2002 11:48:34
You say in the initial post that it seems good for a while & then goes hard again.
Is this in the front or rear?
As a test, when it goes hard, if feasible to do so, pull up, leave engine running and test by pressing down on each corner. It sounds so much like a height corrector that I will be surprised if it's not. It could also be that the stiffness is front & not rear. BTW, when I say Height Corrector, I include in that description the linkages, which is symptometic of the problem you have. Could need oiling & freeing up, all of which MUST be done over a pit or on a ramp & definitely not by lying under the car. Also when did the car last have an LHM change & filters cleaned? If this is getting grotty, it may be time for a hydraflush as even with a new height corrector, if there's muck in the system, it'll clog up in a few miles.
Alan S
Is this in the front or rear?
As a test, when it goes hard, if feasible to do so, pull up, leave engine running and test by pressing down on each corner. It sounds so much like a height corrector that I will be surprised if it's not. It could also be that the stiffness is front & not rear. BTW, when I say Height Corrector, I include in that description the linkages, which is symptometic of the problem you have. Could need oiling & freeing up, all of which MUST be done over a pit or on a ramp & definitely not by lying under the car. Also when did the car last have an LHM change & filters cleaned? If this is getting grotty, it may be time for a hydraflush as even with a new height corrector, if there's muck in the system, it'll clog up in a few miles.
Alan S
The car had 2 new rear spheres, and a new rear height corrector, and a LHM change at the end of August, about 1000-1500 miles ago. Before this was done, and about 3 days after it was done onwards, the rear ride quality is very harsh unless I raise the suspension and then lower it again. If I do this it's fine for the rest of the journey.
1994 Citroen Xantia SX 1.9 Turbo Diesel
147,500 miles
1994 Citroen Xantia SX 1.9 Turbo Diesel
147,500 miles
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
The car had 2 new rear spheres, and a new rear height corrector, and a LHM change at the end of August, about 1000-1500 miles ago. Before this was done, and about 3 days after it was done onwards, the rear ride quality is very harsh unless I raise the suspension and then lower it again. If I do this it's fine for the rest of the journey.
1994 Citroen Xantia SX 1.9 Turbo Diesel
147,500 miles
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>
Based on this information, I'll stick with my sticky height corrector linkages daignosis unless anyone can come up with anything more logical.
Alan S
The car had 2 new rear spheres, and a new rear height corrector, and a LHM change at the end of August, about 1000-1500 miles ago. Before this was done, and about 3 days after it was done onwards, the rear ride quality is very harsh unless I raise the suspension and then lower it again. If I do this it's fine for the rest of the journey.
1994 Citroen Xantia SX 1.9 Turbo Diesel
147,500 miles
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>
Based on this information, I'll stick with my sticky height corrector linkages daignosis unless anyone can come up with anything more logical.
Alan S
Once on a BX, I had an anti-roll bar problem which gave the same symptoms. Work on the back end of the car had necessitated unbolting it form the trailing arms. The bolts were not tightened properly on one side & came out a couple of weeks later. The auto-adjustment of the rear ht. corrector works from the anti-roll bar, if it doesn't twist, the ht. corrector isn't 'corrected'. I have also heard of an anti-roll bar snapping with the same result. Again, if the fitter of the new ht. corrector did the job properly, he should have checked for the correct vehicle height after fitting. He may not have done this or may not have tightened the 'adjustment' collar on the anti-roll bar after adjustment. Just a few thoughts. Oh and another one: when the rear ht. corrector was fitted, air could have got into the system. It is not easily purged from the back end & does cause strange problems. To get rid of it, you have to bleed the reat brakes [yes the brakes!]
Fox,
Do you know if your car is a hydractive? (should have some extra spheres, the easiest to see is the one between the two front wheels, underneath the car, not the acc. in the engine bay)
I say this because on any hydractive Xm, the car sort of goes down at the rear (presumably the hydractive sphere being filled with LHM once the valve opens) and then corrects the height again. When the car doesn't do this the rear suspension will be very hard and it can be solved by manually setting the suspension on high and on normal again.
That's all I can think of right now.
Niek.
Do you know if your car is a hydractive? (should have some extra spheres, the easiest to see is the one between the two front wheels, underneath the car, not the acc. in the engine bay)
I say this because on any hydractive Xm, the car sort of goes down at the rear (presumably the hydractive sphere being filled with LHM once the valve opens) and then corrects the height again. When the car doesn't do this the rear suspension will be very hard and it can be solved by manually setting the suspension on high and on normal again.
That's all I can think of right now.
Niek.
hmm
It can't be the collar on the anti-roll bar being loose because Fox wouldn't be able to raise the car and lower it again. It could still be linkages though.
Here's something I don't get,
The suspension/brake system on a hydraulic Citroen is an 'open' system, the surplus LHM flows back to the tank in the engine bay. How can there ever be air in the system, or more precisely, how can air ever stay in the system? (realised when I typed it that getting it in isn't a problem, but it will come out by itself) The only places that could have air in them are the cul-de-sacs, ie the brakes, and this would manifest itself rather quickly through problems when braking.
I'd go for the hydraflush, after cleaning and oiling the linkages. I've done it myself on the Xm, no leaks came up and the car performed perfectly. Left it in a little long (7000 km) but no problems. Did have to clean the filters twice in that period though.
Goodluck and I'd be very interested to hear the solution once you've found it...
Niek.
It can't be the collar on the anti-roll bar being loose because Fox wouldn't be able to raise the car and lower it again. It could still be linkages though.
Here's something I don't get,
The suspension/brake system on a hydraulic Citroen is an 'open' system, the surplus LHM flows back to the tank in the engine bay. How can there ever be air in the system, or more precisely, how can air ever stay in the system? (realised when I typed it that getting it in isn't a problem, but it will come out by itself) The only places that could have air in them are the cul-de-sacs, ie the brakes, and this would manifest itself rather quickly through problems when braking.
I'd go for the hydraflush, after cleaning and oiling the linkages. I've done it myself on the Xm, no leaks came up and the car performed perfectly. Left it in a little long (7000 km) but no problems. Did have to clean the filters twice in that period though.
Goodluck and I'd be very interested to hear the solution once you've found it...
Niek.
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Dave Burns
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You need an anti sink sphere on there by the sounds of it, this will cause it to drop when the engine is started.
When the engine is started and hydraulic pressure reaches a preset limit the security valve opens, the action of this valve opening extinguishes the hydraulic low pressure warning light and at the same time admits high pressure LHM into the suspension where it then opens the anti sink valves, now in order for your car to drop at the rear like it does, the oil supporting its weight in the suspension cylinder's has to have somewhere to go, and that somewhere is the nearly dead anti sink sphere.
When the sphere is totally dead and the diaphragm ruptures it will remain full of oil, when this happens the rear of the car will not drop in this fashion for the obvious reason.
Because the anti sink sphere is in the rear suspension circuit it will have some affect on the quality of the ride, since it is a compressable element and is subject to the same level of pressure as that in the cylinders.
Dave
When the engine is started and hydraulic pressure reaches a preset limit the security valve opens, the action of this valve opening extinguishes the hydraulic low pressure warning light and at the same time admits high pressure LHM into the suspension where it then opens the anti sink valves, now in order for your car to drop at the rear like it does, the oil supporting its weight in the suspension cylinder's has to have somewhere to go, and that somewhere is the nearly dead anti sink sphere.
When the sphere is totally dead and the diaphragm ruptures it will remain full of oil, when this happens the rear of the car will not drop in this fashion for the obvious reason.
Because the anti sink sphere is in the rear suspension circuit it will have some affect on the quality of the ride, since it is a compressable element and is subject to the same level of pressure as that in the cylinders.
Dave