I have problems with my 98 (new shape) Xantia 1.9td
When the engine is running if I press down on the back of the car it sinks down and then starts to pump back up again then when I let go it will go back down again, but when I press down on the front of the car it seems solid, I can’t push it down at all, it seems ok driving it as long as the roads aren’t to bumpy. Do I have a problem and if so is it just the front or do I need to get all the spheres replaced? How much should I be thinking about having to pay?
The next problems are possibly connected, I have a slow leak in my radiator by slow I mean I top the expansion tank up about once a week I spoke to Citroen about the price of a new radiator and they said just over two hundred pounds just for the part not fitting as well, which is why I carried on toping it up once a week, the other day however I was in town in traffic when I noticed the temp gauge, which is normally at around 75 degrees had gone up to nearly 100 degrees, I presumed that the leak had suddenly become drastically worse and drove home quickly, whilst keeping in an eye on it, although once I got going out of traffic, the temperature came down to normal again, anyway when I got home I checked the water and it was fine so I wondered if the fans should have come on but had a problem, I read on this forum that when I press the aircon button the fans should come on all the time well they don’t come on at all, any advice on that one? You’ve probably gathered I’m not to good with engines I was going to have a go at fitting the radiator myself, twenty years ago they weren’t to complicated I’m not sure about now.
Any help appreciated Robbie.
Problems with my Xantia
Moderator: RichardW
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Dave Burns
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Robbie, you only need to replace the front spheres by the sound of it (assuming the front isn't abnormally high), and you are of course sure that the rad. is kaput and the leak isn't from somewhere else like the water pump.
Now the good news, you will get the rad, spheres and the sphere removal tool for 185 odd quid inc vat from A/Spares if you do it yourself, if a cit dealer does all this for you then you may not have much change out of 500 smackers, no contest in my book.
Get a Haynes manual if you haven't allready got one, read the relevant sections and then read them again and get a good look at the bits on the car, anything you don't understand or are unsure of come and ask, the good folk on here will then talk you through.
Do the spheres first, they are a doddle and will boost your confidence in things mechanical, but don't let that engine overheat whatever you do, because then it really will hurt your wallet.
Dave
Now the good news, you will get the rad, spheres and the sphere removal tool for 185 odd quid inc vat from A/Spares if you do it yourself, if a cit dealer does all this for you then you may not have much change out of 500 smackers, no contest in my book.
Get a Haynes manual if you haven't allready got one, read the relevant sections and then read them again and get a good look at the bits on the car, anything you don't understand or are unsure of come and ask, the good folk on here will then talk you through.
Do the spheres first, they are a doddle and will boost your confidence in things mechanical, but don't let that engine overheat whatever you do, because then it really will hurt your wallet.
Dave
Thanks for answering, If I did feel brave enough to take on renewing the spheres are they all replaced in the same way (front and back) or are some differant to others. I don't even know how many there are. I found a place called West Roen Citroen Suspension on the internet that looks reasonably priced "http://www.westroen-spheres.co.uk/Directions.htm"
any views on them. I suppose I'm worried about getting half way through the job and then hitting a snag and have to pay for a pick up truck to come and collect it and take it to a Citroen main dealer in bits. I do have a Haynes manual and it does look reasonably straight forward, unless the depressurising screw snaps off (it's the sort of thing that happens to me). As far as the radiator goes there is steam coming through the front grill so I guess it is the rad. What about the two fans, should they be coming on when I press the aircon button?
Thanks again Robbie.
any views on them. I suppose I'm worried about getting half way through the job and then hitting a snag and have to pay for a pick up truck to come and collect it and take it to a Citroen main dealer in bits. I do have a Haynes manual and it does look reasonably straight forward, unless the depressurising screw snaps off (it's the sort of thing that happens to me). As far as the radiator goes there is steam coming through the front grill so I guess it is the rad. What about the two fans, should they be coming on when I press the aircon button?
Thanks again Robbie.
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RichardW
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Robbie,
They're basically all replaced the same - crack off, depressure, unscrew, fit new, repressure, top up LHM. Fronts are pretty easy, rears a bit more troublesome as they tend to rust on, and the pipes can break off (and they're under the car!).
Your car has at least 6 spheres - one for each wheel, plus a rear anti-sink, plus the main accumulator (mounted on the front of the engine). If you've got hydractive, then there are an additional 2 'centre' spheres. If you've got Activa, then there are a further 2!
In your case looks like you just need 2 fronts and it's probably worth doing the accumulator as well. As your car is 4 years old, an LHM change at the same time would not go amiss either.
You will not snap off the bleed screw (unless you turn it backwards!), but you might lose the bearing if you take it right out - one turn is plenty!
Westroen offer 'recon' spheres - which basically means painted and regassed - they do however offer a 2 year guarantee which is pretty good at £25 / sphere fitted. The guy was pretty friendly when I went there last.
If you decide to go ahead, post back, and more detailed info on the change procedure can be given!
Richard
They're basically all replaced the same - crack off, depressure, unscrew, fit new, repressure, top up LHM. Fronts are pretty easy, rears a bit more troublesome as they tend to rust on, and the pipes can break off (and they're under the car!).
Your car has at least 6 spheres - one for each wheel, plus a rear anti-sink, plus the main accumulator (mounted on the front of the engine). If you've got hydractive, then there are an additional 2 'centre' spheres. If you've got Activa, then there are a further 2!
In your case looks like you just need 2 fronts and it's probably worth doing the accumulator as well. As your car is 4 years old, an LHM change at the same time would not go amiss either.
You will not snap off the bleed screw (unless you turn it backwards!), but you might lose the bearing if you take it right out - one turn is plenty!
Westroen offer 'recon' spheres - which basically means painted and regassed - they do however offer a 2 year guarantee which is pretty good at £25 / sphere fitted. The guy was pretty friendly when I went there last.
If you decide to go ahead, post back, and more detailed info on the change procedure can be given!
Richard
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Oystercatcher
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Yep, the fans should come on at low speed with the aircon.
According to the Haynes manual, they are controlled by the 'Bitron' sensor (on the thermostat housing, the one with the brown connector) but presumably this is just the engine temperature control?
Have you checked the engine compartment fuses (just behind the battery)?
Alan
According to the Haynes manual, they are controlled by the 'Bitron' sensor (on the thermostat housing, the one with the brown connector) but presumably this is just the engine temperature control?
Have you checked the engine compartment fuses (just behind the battery)?
Alan
COMMON:
Grab yourself 1 - 2 L of NEW LHM
Top up the LHM reservoir before bleeding the brakes, and after.
Fronts:
As the spheres are on the top of the wings, there is no need to support the car when doing the fronts.
1) Using a sphere removal tool - or similar, undo the two side spheres ONLY a quarter of a turn.
2) Using a 12mm spanner, depressurise the system by SLIGHTLY undoing the bolt near the accumulator sphere behind the radiator - hissing sound follows.
3) Put a rag UNDERNEATH the sphere as you unscrew them - prepare for leakage.
4) Once the sphere is off, prepare the rubber seal on the new sphere by putting a little FRESH LHM on it.
5) Put the seal into the strut top.
6) Gently screw in the sphere - this should be HAND TIGHT only. Take care not to damage the seal you just put in.
7) When both sides are done, start the engine.
8) Re-pressurise the system by tightening the bolt - GENTLY.
9) Do some aerobics with the suspension..
REARS:
Keep the system pressurised until you have moved each sphere by 1/4 of a turn.
SAFETY: THE CAR MUST BE SUPPORTED AT ALL TIMES - REMEMBER YOU ARE DISCONNECTING THE SUSPENSION, AND THE CAR WILL DROP LIKE A STONE.
The process for the rears is the same for the front, except that you need to support the car while you are underneath it. Sphere access is easier with the wheels off.
Axle stands should be used.
To simulate a load on the suspension - making it easier for the initial turn and bleeding brakes - you could use a jack to push the arm up ( one side at a time ).
IT IS IMPORTANT TO MAKE SURE THAT ONLY THE SPHERE IS TURNING, AND NOT THE WHOLE UNIT - THIS MAY DAMAGE THE PIPES.
After the initial turn, depressurise the system, and continue, making sure you are safe at all times. REMEMBER, the car WILL drop significantly when you depressurise and when you take the sphere off.
For the accumulator, same as the rears, SUPPORT THE FRONT OF THE CAR ON STANDS.
It really does sound a lot more complicated than it is. My fronts took me 15 mins per side, and the rears 20 mins per side, that was my first go.
Do yourself a favour, and get a proper sphere removal tool from one of the specialist suppliers, such as GSF, cost approx £30. Saves so much trouble !
Hope this helps.
Mat.
Grab yourself 1 - 2 L of NEW LHM
Top up the LHM reservoir before bleeding the brakes, and after.
Fronts:
As the spheres are on the top of the wings, there is no need to support the car when doing the fronts.
1) Using a sphere removal tool - or similar, undo the two side spheres ONLY a quarter of a turn.
2) Using a 12mm spanner, depressurise the system by SLIGHTLY undoing the bolt near the accumulator sphere behind the radiator - hissing sound follows.
3) Put a rag UNDERNEATH the sphere as you unscrew them - prepare for leakage.
4) Once the sphere is off, prepare the rubber seal on the new sphere by putting a little FRESH LHM on it.
5) Put the seal into the strut top.
6) Gently screw in the sphere - this should be HAND TIGHT only. Take care not to damage the seal you just put in.
7) When both sides are done, start the engine.
8) Re-pressurise the system by tightening the bolt - GENTLY.
9) Do some aerobics with the suspension..
REARS:
Keep the system pressurised until you have moved each sphere by 1/4 of a turn.
SAFETY: THE CAR MUST BE SUPPORTED AT ALL TIMES - REMEMBER YOU ARE DISCONNECTING THE SUSPENSION, AND THE CAR WILL DROP LIKE A STONE.
The process for the rears is the same for the front, except that you need to support the car while you are underneath it. Sphere access is easier with the wheels off.
Axle stands should be used.
To simulate a load on the suspension - making it easier for the initial turn and bleeding brakes - you could use a jack to push the arm up ( one side at a time ).
IT IS IMPORTANT TO MAKE SURE THAT ONLY THE SPHERE IS TURNING, AND NOT THE WHOLE UNIT - THIS MAY DAMAGE THE PIPES.
After the initial turn, depressurise the system, and continue, making sure you are safe at all times. REMEMBER, the car WILL drop significantly when you depressurise and when you take the sphere off.
For the accumulator, same as the rears, SUPPORT THE FRONT OF THE CAR ON STANDS.
It really does sound a lot more complicated than it is. My fronts took me 15 mins per side, and the rears 20 mins per side, that was my first go.
Do yourself a favour, and get a proper sphere removal tool from one of the specialist suppliers, such as GSF, cost approx £30. Saves so much trouble !
Hope this helps.
Mat.
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RichardW
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'13 3008 1.6 HDi GripControl - x 1002
Lars,
I see there is a good write up for the rears by Alan S in the "Common faults and fixes" section of this forum.
To add to this, I would start with the fronts, then do the accumulator, then do the rears. If you put the front on ramps you can do the wheel spheres and accumlator at the same time. It is essential that you 'crack' the rear spheres with the pressure on, and weight on the wheels, otherwise the cylinders can turn and shear off the pipes.
The bleed screw is the only 12mm bolt sticking out of the front of the pressure regulator (which the accumulator is screwed to), and which is on the front of the engine. Undo this bolt no more than 1 turn - you should then hear a hissing as the pressure releases. If your car has anti-sink, then I think you need to depressure with the engine running, otherwise the antisink valves come in, and don't let the pressure off.
Get yourself a sphere removal tool as well - only £30, but makes the job easy as pie. Available from Andyspares or Plaeides.
When changing the rear anti-sink sphere, I think there is a pipe that must be unscrewed first or it gets wrecked. Also it needs a different seal to the normal spheres, and I think this is not normally supplied by Andyspares - make sure you ask for it!
When refitting all spheres, put a light smear of grease on the seal, and fit it to the housing rather than the sphere (and make sure the old one is removed!), otherwise it falls out and ends up in the wrong place, and the sphere leaks. Spheres need to be hand tight ONLY!
Lastly, but most importantly, DO NOT get under the car and start dicking with the hydraulics UNLESS you have axle stands in place! A car weighs a lot and will make a nice pancake of you.
Finally, put it in high and check the level of the LHM, it is likely you will need to add 0.5 - 1 litre for a full sphere change.
HTH!
Richard
I see there is a good write up for the rears by Alan S in the "Common faults and fixes" section of this forum.
To add to this, I would start with the fronts, then do the accumulator, then do the rears. If you put the front on ramps you can do the wheel spheres and accumlator at the same time. It is essential that you 'crack' the rear spheres with the pressure on, and weight on the wheels, otherwise the cylinders can turn and shear off the pipes.
The bleed screw is the only 12mm bolt sticking out of the front of the pressure regulator (which the accumulator is screwed to), and which is on the front of the engine. Undo this bolt no more than 1 turn - you should then hear a hissing as the pressure releases. If your car has anti-sink, then I think you need to depressure with the engine running, otherwise the antisink valves come in, and don't let the pressure off.
Get yourself a sphere removal tool as well - only £30, but makes the job easy as pie. Available from Andyspares or Plaeides.
When changing the rear anti-sink sphere, I think there is a pipe that must be unscrewed first or it gets wrecked. Also it needs a different seal to the normal spheres, and I think this is not normally supplied by Andyspares - make sure you ask for it!
When refitting all spheres, put a light smear of grease on the seal, and fit it to the housing rather than the sphere (and make sure the old one is removed!), otherwise it falls out and ends up in the wrong place, and the sphere leaks. Spheres need to be hand tight ONLY!
Lastly, but most importantly, DO NOT get under the car and start dicking with the hydraulics UNLESS you have axle stands in place! A car weighs a lot and will make a nice pancake of you.
Finally, put it in high and check the level of the LHM, it is likely you will need to add 0.5 - 1 litre for a full sphere change.
HTH!
Richard
Westroen are based in a semi in South Manchester and use the garage as a workshop. They did a good job of changing my spheres and the LHM, £25 per sphere plus £40 for the fluid. I used them because I'd not done the job before and couldn't budge the accumulator - the guy used a cold chisel to start it off. Having seen the job done I'd definitely do it myself if there was a next time. Only problem I had was pinning them down to a date to do the job.
Looks like your main dealer wants 6 x £70 plus about two hours labour.
Looks like your main dealer wants 6 x £70 plus about two hours labour.
For those of you in or around North London or Hertfordshire, I have used a place nearby to replace my Xantia VSX's spheres (Hydractive suspension, so 7 spheres were replaced). They did all the spheres plus the fluid and cleaned the filters for £280. They quoted £19+vat per sphere (New pattern parts not recon) and £25+vat per pair labour, the last time I checked.
I've also used them for servicing, now I'm not too sure how cheap this was in comparison, but last week for £365 I had the 108,000 mile service, plus some other bits and bobs. In the end the car had oil, air, petrol and LHM filters replaced (all genuine citroen parts), LHM drained and replaced, engine oil and auto gearbox fluid drained and replaced, coolant drained and replaced, sparks plugs replaced, the front flexible brake hoses replaced as they were on there way out, plus the car having the once over on the ramps, rear height adjusters lubed etc etc. Now for £365 quid I was happy, and the car is too running smoother than a smooth thing. Drop me an e-mail if you want the details of the garage, as this is looking too much like an advert already, but they are good, and I'm just a happy customer who is willing to recommend them to others. Oh they did this service for me on a Saturday morning too....
I've also used them for servicing, now I'm not too sure how cheap this was in comparison, but last week for £365 I had the 108,000 mile service, plus some other bits and bobs. In the end the car had oil, air, petrol and LHM filters replaced (all genuine citroen parts), LHM drained and replaced, engine oil and auto gearbox fluid drained and replaced, coolant drained and replaced, sparks plugs replaced, the front flexible brake hoses replaced as they were on there way out, plus the car having the once over on the ramps, rear height adjusters lubed etc etc. Now for £365 quid I was happy, and the car is too running smoother than a smooth thing. Drop me an e-mail if you want the details of the garage, as this is looking too much like an advert already, but they are good, and I'm just a happy customer who is willing to recommend them to others. Oh they did this service for me on a Saturday morning too....
Thanks to Richard and Mat. for the fulfilling answers. Now I am sure I can do this myself. I think I will rent a lift for the job (comes with a nice warm garage as well)<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> and then only lift the weels half or so of the ground when removing the rear spheres. That should do the job, eh?
I will surely print this page so I have something to fall back to if I'm stuck.
Lars P.
I will surely print this page so I have something to fall back to if I'm stuck.
Lars P.