View Inside a Suspension Sphere
Moderator: RichardW
View Inside a Suspension Sphere
Hi Folks,
At long last I have cut open a Sphere...
I have cut off the screwed section, and I use this to plug the hole in the rear arm hydraulic rams to prevent crud from entering, when cleaning, ready for the new sphere.
At long last I have cut open a Sphere...
I have cut off the screwed section, and I use this to plug the hole in the rear arm hydraulic rams to prevent crud from entering, when cleaning, ready for the new sphere.
Brian - 86 Visa 17D Sorn(192K)/ 86 BX 17RD (220K) Scrapped/ 92 BX 17TZD Turbo Diesel (191K)
96 306 XRDT (174K)
96 306 XRDT (174K)
Sadly, the most interesting part of the sphere - the diaphram, and what it looks like, seems to have been destroyed by cutting it in half
Was that an accumulator or a suspension sphere ?
Regards,
Simon
Was that an accumulator or a suspension sphere ?
Regards,
Simon
Simon
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
Hi Folks,
Just to expand on the queries a little:
Yes, I cut off the interesting threaded bit using a hacksaw, and it was on a very cold day in the garage, and it did keep me warm..
Cutting the remainder in half I used an angle grinder...
I was suprised to see that the membane was in fact translucent, but this was a dead one and the diaphragm was split, so no LHM or pressure...
The sphere was in fact a suspension one, but i don't want to cut the interesting threaded bit in half, as I had a good use for it, as my original post...
I did try to remove the damper disks etc from the threaded section, but this was well and truly fixed, and although I gave it some welly, it just would not budge...
Any one managed to do this ?...
Cheers
Brian
Just to expand on the queries a little:
Yes, I cut off the interesting threaded bit using a hacksaw, and it was on a very cold day in the garage, and it did keep me warm..
Cutting the remainder in half I used an angle grinder...
I was suprised to see that the membane was in fact translucent, but this was a dead one and the diaphragm was split, so no LHM or pressure...
The sphere was in fact a suspension one, but i don't want to cut the interesting threaded bit in half, as I had a good use for it, as my original post...
I did try to remove the damper disks etc from the threaded section, but this was well and truly fixed, and although I gave it some welly, it just would not budge...
Any one managed to do this ?...
Cheers
Brian
Last edited by G4EIY on 04 Feb 2006, 16:56, edited 1 time in total.
Brian - 86 Visa 17D Sorn(192K)/ 86 BX 17RD (220K) Scrapped/ 92 BX 17TZD Turbo Diesel (191K)
96 306 XRDT (174K)
96 306 XRDT (174K)
Translucent membrane, that's the 'multilayer' sphere from the front suspension, with 3 dimples around the plug.
Worth knowing that they can split.
Have seen opened ones at my mechanic's shed, and he did the lot with an angle grinder.
The clear membranes looked perfectly good, but the pressure had still escaped.
Many of the multilayer spheres are well over 10 years old.
Worth knowing that they can split.
Have seen opened ones at my mechanic's shed, and he did the lot with an angle grinder.
The clear membranes looked perfectly good, but the pressure had still escaped.
Many of the multilayer spheres are well over 10 years old.
2002 C5 2.0i AL4 230,000 km 76372389
What are they made of?The clear membranes looked perfectly good, but the pressure had still escaped.
BL Hydragas ones are, I believe, neoprene, and they retain sphere pressure more or less indefinately-for decades.
They are, in fact, an integral part of the suspension unit and can't be changed like a Citroen one can without having to change the whole unit.
The Citroen membranes must be made of something different for them to go flat as quickly as they do.
Story from Pleiades:
The sphere is not laminated but the diaphragm is.
Earlier diaphragms were made from polyurethane.
This was an excellent material being resistant to both mineral fluids and low temperatures.
However, it does permit the passage of nitrogen molecules (molecular diffusion).
In the laminated diaphragm, a thin layer (about .3mm) of polythene is sandwiched between two layers of polyurethane.
The polythene is almost impermeable to nitrogen molecules and therefore does not lose pressure to any degree due to diffusion.
Snag is that in cold climates it can crack thus cutting the polyurethane and dumping the gas.
Citroen overcame this problem on the C5 by changing the sphere shape to oblate spheroid thus reducing the degree of diaphragm flex.
My uncle in Belgium has always had Austins only, including 2 Maxis, and there never were suspension problems.
They were comfy and good fun to drive, especially centring the steering with the accelerator.
The sphere is not laminated but the diaphragm is.
Earlier diaphragms were made from polyurethane.
This was an excellent material being resistant to both mineral fluids and low temperatures.
However, it does permit the passage of nitrogen molecules (molecular diffusion).
In the laminated diaphragm, a thin layer (about .3mm) of polythene is sandwiched between two layers of polyurethane.
The polythene is almost impermeable to nitrogen molecules and therefore does not lose pressure to any degree due to diffusion.
Snag is that in cold climates it can crack thus cutting the polyurethane and dumping the gas.
Citroen overcame this problem on the C5 by changing the sphere shape to oblate spheroid thus reducing the degree of diaphragm flex.
My uncle in Belgium has always had Austins only, including 2 Maxis, and there never were suspension problems.
They were comfy and good fun to drive, especially centring the steering with the accelerator.
2002 C5 2.0i AL4 230,000 km 76372389
The damper disc unit is held in purely by an interference fit, and according to my Dad it is possible to remove it (with considerable difficulty) although I didn't ask how.G4EIY wrote:I did try to remove the damper disks etc from the threaded section, but this was well and truly fixed, and although I gave it some welly, it just would not budge...
Any one managed to do this ?...
Refitting is probably done by freezing the damper unit, heating the sphere base and pressing it in with a press...
Regards,
Simon
Simon
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
More than that, apparently they split a lot more easily than the standard diaphrams, when the gas pressure gets low and the diaphram is forced to start folding back on itself...Clogzz wrote:Translucent membrane, that's the 'multilayer' sphere from the front suspension, with 3 dimples around the plug.
Worth knowing that they can split.
It's only the fact that they lose pressure so slowly that makes them long lasting. Once they do lose a lot of pressure they crack easily, which I guess is why Citroen have done everything possible to prevent people regassing them...once they get to the point where they really need regassing, the diaphram damage is already done...
Regards,
Simon
Simon
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
Simon -
Try ask your old man if he remembers the DS/ID spheres. Here the damper unit was fitted as a threaded unit ...
Would be nonsense to try remove it as new spheres are very cheap - and the vast selection of sphere types makes it possible to choose any modified suspension damping you want - at your own risc.
Try ask your old man if he remembers the DS/ID spheres. Here the damper unit was fitted as a threaded unit ...
Would be nonsense to try remove it as new spheres are very cheap - and the vast selection of sphere types makes it possible to choose any modified suspension damping you want - at your own risc.
Anders (DK) - '90 BX16Image
To clear up any confusion for our younger readers,BMC Hydrolastic was rubber sprung- no gas, as used on the 1100/1300, Maxi, Landcrab, wet subframed minis, etc, whereas BL Hydragas was nitrogen sprung, as in a Citroen sphere,and introduced on the Allegro, used on the Princess to wonderful effect, and still in use on the MG-F.
Its strange how the Citroen system is still held up as a paragon of advanced technology, whereas Alex Moulton's hydro systems are more or less forgotten!!
Its strange how the Citroen system is still held up as a paragon of advanced technology, whereas Alex Moulton's hydro systems are more or less forgotten!!