Recently I read something in a topic regarding the best engine oil to use on a Xantia. Unfortunately I can't find the topic back <img src=icon_smile_angry.gif border=0 align=middle>
Somebody recommended a different brand/type of oil that will reduce the oil consumption.
Can anybody tell me what it was or send me the topic-link again?
Cheers,
John
Dumped my Escort XR3I for a Xantia <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
What kind of oil in Xantia 1.8i??????
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RichardW
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John,
On an older car that has been run on mineral oil, you should resist changing to one of the 'premium' oils such as Mobil 1 0W-30 as this can increase fuel consumption and produce leaks. Having said that I had no problems on my BX TD when I changed to a semi-synthetic oil, and the noise and fuel consumption appeared to go down. I will be changing the oil in my 'new' Xantia TD (73k) soon, and will be using a semi-synth diesel oil. I'd recommend this for your car, something like Castrol GTX which is 10W-40 semi-synth (I think).
Most important thing is to change the oil regularly - this will prolong your engine's life much more than any fancy oil can!
If it is already burning / losing oil, then there is not much you can do to stop it, save an engine rebuild......
Richard
On an older car that has been run on mineral oil, you should resist changing to one of the 'premium' oils such as Mobil 1 0W-30 as this can increase fuel consumption and produce leaks. Having said that I had no problems on my BX TD when I changed to a semi-synthetic oil, and the noise and fuel consumption appeared to go down. I will be changing the oil in my 'new' Xantia TD (73k) soon, and will be using a semi-synth diesel oil. I'd recommend this for your car, something like Castrol GTX which is 10W-40 semi-synth (I think).
Most important thing is to change the oil regularly - this will prolong your engine's life much more than any fancy oil can!
If it is already burning / losing oil, then there is not much you can do to stop it, save an engine rebuild......
Richard
I would go with Richard pretty well on this.
The low end figure has a bearing on how easily the oil flows when the engine is cold so I would say with winter approaching over there I would look at say a 10W 40 or at worst a 15. Don't go as high as a 20 or above as I am presently doing battle with a motor that has had this treatment & not to its betterment.
I had heard reports that Castrol Magnetec was a bit questionable in cars with a bit of age some time ago but one of my sons bought some for his car and it has been quite impressive. A few years ago it used to be a thing "when in doubt use Castrol" but that was before the days of high tech oils as we get now, but based on that experience, I'd feel safe putting it in an 8 valve motor. I still don't think it would be up to speed for a 16 valve motor however, but that's a whole new ball game.
Alan S
The low end figure has a bearing on how easily the oil flows when the engine is cold so I would say with winter approaching over there I would look at say a 10W 40 or at worst a 15. Don't go as high as a 20 or above as I am presently doing battle with a motor that has had this treatment & not to its betterment.
I had heard reports that Castrol Magnetec was a bit questionable in cars with a bit of age some time ago but one of my sons bought some for his car and it has been quite impressive. A few years ago it used to be a thing "when in doubt use Castrol" but that was before the days of high tech oils as we get now, but based on that experience, I'd feel safe putting it in an 8 valve motor. I still don't think it would be up to speed for a 16 valve motor however, but that's a whole new ball game.
Alan S
I'm just going to hijack the subject here <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>. I've read on different fori (or is it forums???) that it ain't wise to change to synthetic after always having used mineral. How about semi-synthetic? I just read Richard did it without any problem, but what's the sort of general viewpoint on this??
Alan, what do you mean by it being ok for 8 valve, but not being sure about 16 valve??? I've got a 2.0i16v and am going to change the oil somewhere within the next month orso. The car has always had mineral (I think) so would I be safe to use semi???(Better question, would it benefit from semi??) And what type of oil would I need for the 16 valves???
Niek.
<img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle>
Alan, what do you mean by it being ok for 8 valve, but not being sure about 16 valve??? I've got a 2.0i16v and am going to change the oil somewhere within the next month orso. The car has always had mineral (I think) so would I be safe to use semi???(Better question, would it benefit from semi??) And what type of oil would I need for the 16 valves???
Niek.
<img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle>
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Jon
Total Quartz 7000 semi synthetic is your best bet.
Thats what Citroen would use as well if you asked them, and what I would recommend too.
Jon Wood
forum@andyspares.com
Thats what Citroen would use as well if you asked them, and what I would recommend too.
Jon Wood
forum@andyspares.com
Thanks for all the info guys <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>
Alan, I forgot to mention that my car is a 16v (Xantia 1.8i, 16v, 1997(R))
Going to battle with my rear door first this weekend as it is locked permanently now <img src=icon_smile_angry.gif border=0 align=middle> I left a topic on the forum last night, but unfortunately no reply yet. Went to the shop at lunchtime and got myself a Haynes manual so I might be able to fix it. But now I have to get Torx screwdrivers ... sigh ...
Looks like the doorlock is faulty and have to replace it. Can't check for parts as the server is being updated.
Cheers,
John
Dumped my Escort XR3I for a Xantia <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Alan, I forgot to mention that my car is a 16v (Xantia 1.8i, 16v, 1997(R))
Going to battle with my rear door first this weekend as it is locked permanently now <img src=icon_smile_angry.gif border=0 align=middle> I left a topic on the forum last night, but unfortunately no reply yet. Went to the shop at lunchtime and got myself a Haynes manual so I might be able to fix it. But now I have to get Torx screwdrivers ... sigh ...
Looks like the doorlock is faulty and have to replace it. Can't check for parts as the server is being updated.
Cheers,
John
Dumped my Escort XR3I for a Xantia <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
" And what type of oil would I need for the 16 valves.."
Citroens argument regarding 16 valves is that with the distance and number of components that need to be lubricated on a 16 valve motor, particularly when cold & initial start up, too thick an oil takes too long to pass through & get in all the little nooks & crannies, hence using too thick a graded oil will cause premature wear.
Gabor Deak Jahn who operates the BX do-it-yourself website, a brilliant reference guide, has often claimed that using a non-Purflux oil filter caused him to lose a camshaft on his BX years ago due to wearing a lobe which if correct would have been also duplicating the symptoms of slow oil movement due to heavier rating. Early model XMs were also reputedly weak in the lubrication on start up which again it's been claimed caused a few of the very early cars to damage cam lobes before the modified oil pump was fitted. I have also heard it said the the SAE 0W 40 oils were developed again for fast circulation of multi valve engines. We've presently got a 16 valve motor in bits and you have to see that in the flesh to realise just how far & fast that oil needs to travel. Apart frpm the usual big neds & mains, you've got an extra set of valves as well as an extra camshaft, a set of hydraulic tappets/lifters, oil cooling sprayed inside the pistons & let's not forget the revs of the modern engine. I also have a couple of CXs. At 4500 rpm, the CX is screaming & at about 5000 up pops the redline on the Tacho. On the BX, the motor just starts to bark at 4500 and is feeling happy with another 2300 to go at 5000.
All this area to be covered by oil instantly, also has the disadvantage (if you can call it that) of these initial high revs also, so say the engine on start up hits 2000 rpm; that equates to 33 revs per second!! Get someone to time you rubbing your hands together that many times in a second<img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle> Physically impossible, but feel how hot (through friction) your hands get even trying. Now your engine is constantly doing this but with an even larger impediment...the pistons are pushing at least 175 psi compression, the equivalent of a 12 1/2 stone person standing on your hands whilst your rubbing them together (using the hypothesis) so can you imagine the strain & friction on thesides of the cylinders as well as the top big end bearing caps as well as mains when all this is added to the flames inside the cylinders causing things to heat up to blowtorch temps instantaneously which of course is causing things to be expanding at all sorts of inordinate rates?
Which gets back to the initial response, that no working surface should be left unprotected and why using thick, slow moving oil is an impediment to long engine life; a car taking say 3 seconds to circulate oil will have spun 100 times before the oil travels it's full circuit which must cause long term problems.
The theory of not using Synthetic after using mineral I think is based more on the fact that Synths are by nature a thinner type oil that can tend to find leaks that would not be apparent on the thicker graded mineral & again leaks could have developed due to the thicker oil not allowing proper lubrication to areas where seals are operating on reciprocating surfaces. By the same token, I read a little while back that someone with an extremely high mileage BX suddenly started using oil via valve stem seals & was told by engineers (there's a story of why 'engineers' were involved) to go for a thinner grade of oil which it was claimed reduced oil consumption. I'm presently experimenting with a low mileage 90K klms oil burning engine and since using a lower weighted oil have improved the oil consumption, but this I am doing gradually; stepping down from 25W-60 to 20W-50 which next time will be 15W-40.
If you are presently on mineral & want to upgrade, I'd suggest going semi-synth for starters and if it is successful, go full synth at some time in the future if you feel confident to do this. The "Oil Bible" actuall recommends going from mineral to synth rather than the other way and after all, they are all compatible so there seems no reason not to change on compatibility grounds.
Sorry for the long rant but it is a fairly complex subject.
Alan S
Citroens argument regarding 16 valves is that with the distance and number of components that need to be lubricated on a 16 valve motor, particularly when cold & initial start up, too thick an oil takes too long to pass through & get in all the little nooks & crannies, hence using too thick a graded oil will cause premature wear.
Gabor Deak Jahn who operates the BX do-it-yourself website, a brilliant reference guide, has often claimed that using a non-Purflux oil filter caused him to lose a camshaft on his BX years ago due to wearing a lobe which if correct would have been also duplicating the symptoms of slow oil movement due to heavier rating. Early model XMs were also reputedly weak in the lubrication on start up which again it's been claimed caused a few of the very early cars to damage cam lobes before the modified oil pump was fitted. I have also heard it said the the SAE 0W 40 oils were developed again for fast circulation of multi valve engines. We've presently got a 16 valve motor in bits and you have to see that in the flesh to realise just how far & fast that oil needs to travel. Apart frpm the usual big neds & mains, you've got an extra set of valves as well as an extra camshaft, a set of hydraulic tappets/lifters, oil cooling sprayed inside the pistons & let's not forget the revs of the modern engine. I also have a couple of CXs. At 4500 rpm, the CX is screaming & at about 5000 up pops the redline on the Tacho. On the BX, the motor just starts to bark at 4500 and is feeling happy with another 2300 to go at 5000.
All this area to be covered by oil instantly, also has the disadvantage (if you can call it that) of these initial high revs also, so say the engine on start up hits 2000 rpm; that equates to 33 revs per second!! Get someone to time you rubbing your hands together that many times in a second<img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle> Physically impossible, but feel how hot (through friction) your hands get even trying. Now your engine is constantly doing this but with an even larger impediment...the pistons are pushing at least 175 psi compression, the equivalent of a 12 1/2 stone person standing on your hands whilst your rubbing them together (using the hypothesis) so can you imagine the strain & friction on thesides of the cylinders as well as the top big end bearing caps as well as mains when all this is added to the flames inside the cylinders causing things to heat up to blowtorch temps instantaneously which of course is causing things to be expanding at all sorts of inordinate rates?
Which gets back to the initial response, that no working surface should be left unprotected and why using thick, slow moving oil is an impediment to long engine life; a car taking say 3 seconds to circulate oil will have spun 100 times before the oil travels it's full circuit which must cause long term problems.
The theory of not using Synthetic after using mineral I think is based more on the fact that Synths are by nature a thinner type oil that can tend to find leaks that would not be apparent on the thicker graded mineral & again leaks could have developed due to the thicker oil not allowing proper lubrication to areas where seals are operating on reciprocating surfaces. By the same token, I read a little while back that someone with an extremely high mileage BX suddenly started using oil via valve stem seals & was told by engineers (there's a story of why 'engineers' were involved) to go for a thinner grade of oil which it was claimed reduced oil consumption. I'm presently experimenting with a low mileage 90K klms oil burning engine and since using a lower weighted oil have improved the oil consumption, but this I am doing gradually; stepping down from 25W-60 to 20W-50 which next time will be 15W-40.
If you are presently on mineral & want to upgrade, I'd suggest going semi-synth for starters and if it is successful, go full synth at some time in the future if you feel confident to do this. The "Oil Bible" actuall recommends going from mineral to synth rather than the other way and after all, they are all compatible so there seems no reason not to change on compatibility grounds.
Sorry for the long rant but it is a fairly complex subject.
Alan S
"Sorry for the long rant but it is a fairly complex subject.
Alan S"
Wow, this is what I call feedback. Very interesting. My car had all its regular services at a Citroen garage. So, I am not sure what they do put in it (I did asked, but got vague replies). I want to get some extra oil as the oil level indicator flashes a bit to long when I start the car these days. If I read Jon's reply right, combined with your (Alan S) reply, I should just go for the semi syntectic Jon mentioned?
Cheers,
John
Dumped my Escort XR3I for a Xantia <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Alan S"
Wow, this is what I call feedback. Very interesting. My car had all its regular services at a Citroen garage. So, I am not sure what they do put in it (I did asked, but got vague replies). I want to get some extra oil as the oil level indicator flashes a bit to long when I start the car these days. If I read Jon's reply right, combined with your (Alan S) reply, I should just go for the semi syntectic Jon mentioned?
Cheers,
John
Dumped my Escort XR3I for a Xantia <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
I purchased my 1996 Xantia 1.9TD (8V)at 50,000 miles,in 1999 now has almost 150,000 miles covered, I have been using Mobil 1, 0-40 Fully Synthetic since time of purchase oil changes at 6000 ml intervals, returning 50 - 56 MPG.perhaps I could get away with a less expensive oil.No leaks,no oil been burned, and no oil top ups between oil changes.(Sorry I know this discussion is about petrol models)
Edited by - jmd on 30 Nov 2002 00:03:50
Edited by - jmd on 30 Nov 2002 00:03:50
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shaunthesheep
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I purchased my 1996 Xantia 1.9TD (8V)at 50,000 miles,in 1999 now has almost 150,000 miles covered, I have been using Mobil 1, 0-40 Fully Synthetic since time of purchase oil changes at 6000 ml intervals, returning 50 - 56 MPG.perhaps I could get away with a less expensive oil.No leaks,no oil been burned, and no oil top ups between oil changes.(Sorry I know this discussion is about petrol models)
Edited by - jmd on 30 Nov 2002 00:03:50
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>
In this case, I'd let sleeping dogs lie.
If the car is going this well on a particular grade & brand of oil, I think it would be unwise to alter that. I also feel it could be false economy to change to a cheaper type & take any risk at all. Added to this, I don't know that you could buy a 0W weighted oil in a semi synthetic anyway.
Given the life expectancy of a well serviced modern engine, particularly a diesel, you'll have plenty of time to start getting into the cheaper grades as the need arises. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Alan S
I purchased my 1996 Xantia 1.9TD (8V)at 50,000 miles,in 1999 now has almost 150,000 miles covered, I have been using Mobil 1, 0-40 Fully Synthetic since time of purchase oil changes at 6000 ml intervals, returning 50 - 56 MPG.perhaps I could get away with a less expensive oil.No leaks,no oil been burned, and no oil top ups between oil changes.(Sorry I know this discussion is about petrol models)
Edited by - jmd on 30 Nov 2002 00:03:50
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>
In this case, I'd let sleeping dogs lie.
If the car is going this well on a particular grade & brand of oil, I think it would be unwise to alter that. I also feel it could be false economy to change to a cheaper type & take any risk at all. Added to this, I don't know that you could buy a 0W weighted oil in a semi synthetic anyway.
Given the life expectancy of a well serviced modern engine, particularly a diesel, you'll have plenty of time to start getting into the cheaper grades as the need arises. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Alan S
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Total Quartz 7000 semi synthetic is your best bet.
Thats what Citroen would use as well if you asked them, and what I would recommend too.
Jon Wood
forum@andyspares.com
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>
Didn't manage to find the Total oil you mentioned (went to most logical places in Northampton). So in the end I settled for Castrol GTX Magnatec 10w-40. Shaunthesheep also uses kind of the same oil I read, just the 15w-40 variant. Makes sense as Alans explains the difference for 8v and 16v.
Cheers,
John
Dumped my Escort XR3I for a Xantia <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Total Quartz 7000 semi synthetic is your best bet.
Thats what Citroen would use as well if you asked them, and what I would recommend too.
Jon Wood
forum@andyspares.com
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>
Didn't manage to find the Total oil you mentioned (went to most logical places in Northampton). So in the end I settled for Castrol GTX Magnatec 10w-40. Shaunthesheep also uses kind of the same oil I read, just the 15w-40 variant. Makes sense as Alans explains the difference for 8v and 16v.
Cheers,
John
Dumped my Escort XR3I for a Xantia <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
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shaunthesheep
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