1.9TD timing belt covers.... any reason to have them?

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Gaskin
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1.9TD timing belt covers.... any reason to have them?

Post by Gaskin »

Confession time!

Tried to change the timing belt on my Xantia 1.9TD estate yesterday. All went fairly well- OK the usual joy of moving thousands of pipes and odd bits of plastic just to reach an obvious nut/bolt etc! Until it came to removing the covers. Suffice to say they came off, but won't be going back on again....... (cold day, brittle plastic, temper tantrum say no more!)

With them off I could just about see the tensioner but no way could I see the various securing bolts etc to loosen it off. Since I need the car I decided that enough is enough. So I put it all back together (minus the timing belt covers) having not touched the timing belt.

So is there any major reason why I shouldn't run with no covers?

Are the covers from any 1.9TD interchangable if I get a set from a scrappy, or do I have to be more model specific?

Also how do you change the belt on one of these without dropping the engine? There is barely enough space to see let alone touch the necessary bits.

Anyone know a good independant in the Norwich area. I admit defeat!

Cheers

Duncan
97 Xantia 1.9TD Estate 118K - sadly no more....
08 C3 1.4 HDI 38k
Rob81
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Post by Rob81 »

Hello,

Can't offer any advice except to try Peter Grubb in Lowestoft (01502 564200). A very good Citroen Specialist who has looked after all my cars. Cannot recommend highly enough (I do a 100 mile round trip to use his garage).

Cheers,

Rob
Citroen C5 2.2 HDi Exclusive Tourer
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Previously;
Lots of Citroens including 2CVs, Dyane, Acadiane, Bx, Activa, XM CX and Picasso
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Mandrake
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Post by Mandrake »

Leaving it with no timing belt cover is not a good idea for two reasons - potentially a stone or other object could flick up from the road and get caught under the belt - instant SNAP of the belt, or at least jumping a few teeth which has much the same result. (Engine a boat anchor)

The other thing is oil contamination of the belt. Any kind of oil such as hydraulic or engine oil etc may get onto the belt during servicing or running, any kind of oil leak under the bonnet that causes a spray of oil is highly likely to get on the belt and damage it.

Regards,
Simon
Simon

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White

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James.UK
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Post by James.UK »

The belt covers serve two purposes. One.. they protect you from harm when you work near them with the engine running..Two.. they prevent foreign objects from getting into the belts etc and causing engine damage.. :shock:

Run without them at your own risk.. :oops: :roll:
.
James. (Nr M67 East of Manchester).
Dark Blue ZX 1.9D Auto 1994 'L' 5 dr (modified) Aura. 98K miles used daily. Ave mpg 40
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sooty
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Post by sooty »

I agree as to what has already been said. A mate of mine had a 405 with a 1.9 and the guy who left off the bottom lower pulley cover off when changing his belt because he was in rush.
5 miles later guess what, the belt snapped. He was following another vehicle over a freshly laid gravel road. A stone had got up between the pulley and belt, and snapped.
He was lucky, he only bent two valves. I've know a Camshaft to break including the camshaft keeps.

So they are there for a reason as already said.!!! [-X
Ex 307 2.0Hdi 90 bhp 2003
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zxTd

Post by zxTd »

I have emailed the data to you on how 2
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fastandfurryous
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Post by fastandfurryous »

The only way you can change these realistically without breaking them is to know where everything is before you even start. The Haynes BOL doesn't really help to be honest, as it goes in for text descriptions rather than useful diagrams and pictures.

Access is indeed very tight indeed, and if you have the later "bolt on" covers, rather than the earlier "clip on" covers, then it's even harder, and you often have to remove miles of pipework before you even start on the belts.
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zxTd

Post by zxTd »

I sent auto-data files with very good graphics much better than the Haynes bols :wink:
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fastandfurryous
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Post by fastandfurryous »

The problem with a fair bit of the procedure is that you can't actually see half the bolts/nuts you're trying to get to. The best one is the tensioner lock bolt. Without a swan-neck spanner or socket that is EXACTLY the right length, there is no chance of getting to it, as you can't see it for toffee!

but.... best of luck with changing the belt, and do make sure you refit the covers properly.
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KevMayer
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Post by KevMayer »

I'm in the process of changing my Bosch diesel pump so have just today taken all these bits and bobs off my Xantia 1.9 turboD to clear enough room to work. I also intend to change the timing belt and water pump.

ZXTD - would you be able to post the info you have for general availability. I'm sure one of the moderators could set it up in the useful hints section.

I have studied Haynes BOL for a while and it misses so much out but its a good start. I have planned the job and am now ready to drain the cooling system, remove the starter motor so I can fit a flywheel lock, remove the crankshaft pulley, remove the pump, fit the replacement pump, remove the oil filler tube and fuel filter housing to give me enough room to fit the adaptor to the new pump to set up the timing (Haynes doesn't mention any of this removal for the adaptor and dial) and so on.

I've already (today) taken off the air filter housing, inlet and outlet ducting from the turbo, right hand engine mounting, upper timing belt covers, auxiliary drive belt, wheel arch liner,

I'm also going to change the rocker cover gasket, flush the engine and radiator and fit new glow plugs because its not been firing up on all cylinders lately.

The replacement pump isn't new. I got it for 10 quid off ebay. Its off a non ecu model with mechanical timing control whereas mine has an ecu, but I am sure I can fit it ok. The problem with my present pump is faulty timing advance (ecu controlled).

So, I'd be interested to see what info you have. Just to check I've not missed anything.

ps. I've never done anything like this before but I work in engineering so I'll try anything ...once..... maybe twice if it works the first time around.
Cheers, Kev

02 plate C5 2.2 Hdi Exclusive SE (now 170k miles 03/21).

Used to have:- Xantia 1.9 TurboD SX. 1996 Blue & 1998 Silver Activa. + 1992 BX TZD Turbo.
zxTd

Post by zxTd »

data sent it would be nice for some one to add it to the how 2s but I haven't a clue how to upload data like this direct to the site so ill leave that to you :wink:
zxTd

Post by zxTd »

Image

Image
KevMayer
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Post by KevMayer »

Nice one. Great pics.

My timing belt tensioner is different to the one in the picture though. it has a middle pivot bolt roughly where 8 is and then with a section of the tensioner arm continuing down to the right where the tensioning spring presses on the end of the arm.

In the text with the first pic it says in the special precautions to 'check diesel pump timing after belt replacement'. How would you do this ? using a dial gauge would be a big job because the oil filler tube is so close on the Xantia with a Bosch pump. It must be done dinamically with the sensor clipped around an injector pipe.
Cheers, Kev

02 plate C5 2.2 Hdi Exclusive SE (now 170k miles 03/21).

Used to have:- Xantia 1.9 TurboD SX. 1996 Blue & 1998 Silver Activa. + 1992 BX TZD Turbo.
Gaskin
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Post by Gaskin »

Thanks for the extra info. The problem is not knowing what to do, but just how on earth you actually do it!

I'm not that worried about stones etc getting into the exposed belt, as the under shield is in place as well as the wheel arch liners and you can't even see the belt from underneath. If it was a major problem, the aux belt should have covers fitted for the same reason. It is a tight enough fit that anything landing on it and being dragged into a pulley would either not happen, or break the belt. Given the importance of the aux belt for suspension and brakes......

Anyway I don't plan to run it for too long as is since the belt still needs changing and I've got to find someone to do it for me. It must be possible, but not for me.

Cheers

Duncan
97 Xantia 1.9TD Estate 118K - sadly no more....
08 C3 1.4 HDI 38k
Gaskin
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Post by Gaskin »

Oh, just a question about the torque for tightening the crankshaft pulley bolt. On the scans posted, it says 'Visa, BX, ZX Xantia, C15: 150Nm' and then on the line below 'except for Visa, BX, ZX Xantia, C15: 40 Nm + 60degrees' So which is it?
Haynes has 40Nm + 60 degrees.

Cheers

Duncan
97 Xantia 1.9TD Estate 118K - sadly no more....
08 C3 1.4 HDI 38k
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