Bro In Law's Car

mezuk04 · Post by **mezuk04** » 28 Dec 2005, 11:47

Well received a phone call of my brother in law at about 10:30 (yes in the morning) about the front passenger side door not shutting properly and i instantly said "its the cold, wd-40 the seals and stick some grease in the locks and spray the catch"....its amazing how much ive learned from you lot

(And now i can pretend its my own knowledge 8) )

Well i decided to go round (100yds away) and do it myself so i know its done, it had been snowing aswell, about 10:45 by now and still asleep.
Well wd-40'd and greased all the locks and its shutting fine now, so thats sorted.

However i decided to start the car and see what this smoking problem was all about which he told me the other week and then posted on here, started the car (new glow plugs - starts beautiful) went to the back and no smoke for about 10 secs and then it starts chugging a little (in a pattern) and then the 'blue' smoke starts coming, a little to begin with and then quite a lot still doing a chug...chug...chug...chug sound all the time, revved it a little but made no difference at all, the rev counter is at 1000rpm and moves in time with the chugs by about a millimeter so nothing rough looking from that angle.

So got in the car and went for an "italian tune up" as i new he wouldnt have done it properly, so did that and then pulled up to my house (well i aint walking home) by this time no smoke and no chugs....decided that he should rev the engine and me stand at the back, now when he started revving it started whistling from what seemed like the very end of the tail pipe and this happened everytime at about 3000-3150rpm, this noise wasnt present from the engine bay or anything liked that, however when driving he said a whistling was coming from the car which i quickly said thats just the "turbo" and it did it when i was driving, but now it looks like its from the back of the exhaust.

Long winded i know but i have tried to add my unique comedy effect to keep you all interested, so any ideas as to this....once again he really has no money and any work thats done will be by me and Wilkobob and me paying to a certain extent.

Any recommendations?

Cheers Guys

It doesnt half fly though

Post by **Peter.N.** » 28 Dec 2005, 12:01

The 'chugging' would certainly seem to be one cylinder missing, the smoke being unburnt fuel from that cylinder, If it starts up on all four and then starts missing it would most likely point to one cylinder being down on compression, The glow plugs provide sufficient heat for the cylinder to fire on start up and once the car is warm the low compression doesn't matter so much as the increased temperature will enable it to fire with lower compression. It could just be lack of valve clearance, I say 'just' but thats a job in itself, it means removing the camshaft and finding and fitting different shims. If it drives OK I would leave it alone.

Dave Burns · Post by **Dave Burns** » 28 Dec 2005, 12:10

You will definately hear the turbo through the exhaust so nothing new there.

The blue smoke and the chugging (missfiring) sounds like it could be the glow relay switching off far too early, (should be on for around three minutes from stone cold) especially if its producing a regular missfire beat, if its erratic though its probably air getting in.

Dave

mezuk04 · Post by **mezuk04** » 28 Dec 2005, 12:30

I would certainly be interested in replacing the glow plug relay for starters as the light does take a bit longer to go out from which im used to on my Xantia and my old ZX and its a simple job.

But if its also pointing out to a cyclinder and since the car is driving fine i would also leave it alone, he did mention that it started doing this 'chugging' at the point when the car was low of diesel (into the red) so he filled up and as far as hes aware it started this business as soon as he filled the car up from near empty.

Post by **Peter.N.** » 28 Dec 2005, 12:34

You can check the length of time the relay is operating for by connecting a voltmeter or lamp between the one of the glow plug terminals and earth and then starting the engine. Three minutes sounds a long time for the glow plugs to be on, but I will bow to Dave's superior knowledge.

JohnT · Post by **JohnT** » 28 Dec 2005, 15:39

I had understood that the glow plugs were on for only a max of 15 seconds after the dash light goes out? Mine shuts down about 5 seconds after the light goes out, enough time for the engine to start.

mezuk04 · Post by **mezuk04** » 28 Dec 2005, 17:05

So going back to the exhaust whistling, this is down to the Turbo without any shadow of a doubt because i just found it weird that the noise should be coming out of the exhaust but then who am i to ask questions

Going back the cyclinders, just out of curiousty (and probably my bad spelling to!) is this a massive, expensive job to look into?

Richard Gallagher · Post by **Richard Gallagher** » 28 Dec 2005, 17:13

JohnT wrote:I had understood that the glow plugs were on for only a max of 15 seconds after the dash light goes out? Mine shuts down about 5 seconds after the light goes out, enough time for the engine to start.

The length of time the plugs operate varied from year to year.

Dave Burns · Post by **Dave Burns** » 28 Dec 2005, 18:08

The xantia doesn't just use the glow plug for starting it also uses them for cleaner and smoother running when the engine is cold, this is known as a post glow system, and the plugs can glow for up to three minutes.

This is the reason that glow plugs must be of the correct type (after glow capable), and is the main reason that people come along here complaining that their new plugs have only lasted a few months, plugs that are not after glow capable will not last very long in a xantia or any other vehicle with a post glow system.

The correct plug is BERU GN 909 for the turbo d (old stock No. GN 013)

How long the plug glows for is both engine temperature and glow timer dependant, if you turn on the ignition without starting the engine the timer will switch the plugs off after only a few seconds.

I typically get about a mile and a half down the road before the glow plugs switch off on the zx, I know this because during the dark mornings I can see the headlights brighten slightly as the plugs 48 amp load comes off the alternator, thats around three minutes of running.

Dave