Activa clutch problem, no:2

handyman · Post by **handyman** » 21 Dec 2005, 13:26

You wait all day for a bus and two clutch problems come along together!

I have just bought a late Mk1 Activa with a clutch problem. Do not panic, I did not pay a lot for it.

Story so far. The seller had a new clutch hydraulic system fitted by a supposed "mechanic", but there is no resistance to the clutch pedal and it does not activate the clutch.
Can somebody give me a brief description of the [u]hydraulic clutch [/u]system in terms of how it actuates at the gearbox end, where it is located, etc? What do I need to remove to get at it? As a sealed system, it cannot be refilled or tampered with?
I have done a search here but there does not seem to be much info.Is there a site on the net with info?
Before I start to delve deeper into fixing it I want to make sure the "mechanic" has fitted the unit correctly as I fail to see how it cannot work if installed as per the book. I have done cable operated clutch repairs on std Xants so I know how to get into the pedal box area without a double hernia.
The seller did say that the car had a slipping clutch prior to this repair and I wanted to ensure that the fault was not with the clutch hydraulics before starting to strip out the gearbox to renew the clutch.
Car has done 110k, full service history, clean and tidy, all for little more than the cost of having a car towed to the scrapyard.

"Merry Christmas to all our readers"

Handyman

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 21 Dec 2005, 15:35

This would be a standard hydraulic clutch setup I suppose. As I've never heard of later hydraulic Citroens with hydraulic power assisted clutch.
Last system I know off was fitted to the CX model range in the mid '80 model series.

You are then facing the standard symptoms wellknown from ordinary hydraulic operated brakes and clutch master/slave cylinders.
Could be anything :
1) air in system
2) missing/low fluid
3) slave cylinder rod activator not adjusted to grip
4) worn cylinder seals finally given up their ghost
5) components not re-fitted (!) after disassembly
6) piping badly leaking emptying system fast

Post by **RichardW** » 21 Dec 2005, 19:28

I had a look on citroen-pr.net, and it seems that the hydraulic clutch is the same as the one fitted to the 2.1TD. Which is good, because that clutch is covered by the Xantia Haynes manual

Here's a picture of the arrangement

Now, according the Haynes, it is a sealed unit - and this appears to be borne out by the picture, as there are no separate parts to it. So the only thing you can check is that it is linked to the pedal (should be clipped on with a ball joint). You could take the slave out of the box (push in and rotate 90° anti clock), and carefully operate the pedal to see if the slave moves out - note that Haynes warns against pressing the pedal when the slave is not engaged in the box, as the piston may be ejected, it also warns to tie in the slave piston using cable ties any time it is out of the box, so you don't press the pedal by accident. I'd have thought however, a gentle partial press of the pedal will allow you to see if it is moving, without wrecking it. Assuming that it is connected, and moves OK, then the fault must lie within the bell housing, pic again:

Note that item 3 is the release bearing, and this is attached to the clutch with a snap ring (oddly, items 12 & 13 are only fitted to LHD cars). When refitting the box, the bearing must be installed on the input shaft, meshed with the release fork, then when the box has been refitted a tool needs to be inserted in the release fork to pull it backwards and engage the snap ring with the clutch. If the box has been off, and not put back right, it could be this is not engaged. With the slave cylinder pulled, you might be able to feel the release lever - it shouldn't flop about - if it does, then it's box off time I think (although you could try engaging the snap ring using the method in Haynes).....

Edit: Now here's a thought - did the vendor say why the hydraulics were changed? Could it be that there was nothing wrong with the old one, and what has in fact happened is that the release bearing has pulled out of the clutch??

handyman · Post by **handyman** » 22 Dec 2005, 05:49

Hi RichardW

Thanks for your information, as the diagrams provide the details that I need and your commentary offers some points to clarify the problems and maybe offer a solution.
As far as I am aware, the clutch has not been replaced on the car so I can only assume that the "mechanic", read "bodger", had only replaced the hydraulic clutch actuating mechanism and had managed to somehow screw it up.
I can only assume that the mechanism has not been fitted correctly at either end, or that if it has been fitted correctly, the idiot has opened the system and lost the fluid content.
If this latter is the case, can the system be opened for more fluid to be added as a new system has been fitted, so there should not be any wear in either piston? I assume that the system is unpressurized as it only has to convert movement from the pedal to the clutch release bearing.
From the diagram of the bell housing, the actuating cylinder sits atop the bell housing and should be easy to get at? Removal of air filter box will reveal all!
If this is the case, it will be a first for Citroen in terms of accessability, as most maintenance jobs on Citroens are never straight forward.
I will keep you posted.

"A Merry Christmas to all our readers."

Handyman