PSA Autoboxes
Moderator: RichardW
-
- Posts: 622
- Joined: 22 Sep 2003, 18:06
- Location: Australia
- My Cars:
- Contact:
I'm really glad I don't live in heavy traffic like you guys.
I feel anyone that can't drive a manually shifted gearbox in traffic without "losing concentration" or "struggling" to drive really doesn't have the capability to drive safely at all. Really when driving a manual car I don't even give the actual driving a thought ... Just like jumping into a car with no synchro's, you simply double clutch the gearchanges... It's no big drama
I personally think it's the french that struggle to make a car with a decent autobox. We once owned a BX1600 automatic... god awful bloody thing it was, a motor and gearbox combination from hell. I own a Xantia 2litre 8valve VSX with a slugomatic gearbox. It's quite ok to drive (unlike the BX), but is never in the gear I want it to be in, and is a slug off the line.
The BX's and Xantias I've driven with proper manual gearbox have been bloody rippa's The BX is a revvy little hatch, and the Xantia feels vastly quicker and is a *much* nicer drive. Then again I don't live in heavy traffic where acceleration and 'drivability' matter little due to the fact your rarely moving, certianly never trying to accelate quickly.
I'm just annoyed you can't get XM's, V6 Xantias or C5's with a proper gearbox out here ... they all have those unreliable bloody slugomatics fitted
seeya,
Shane L.
I feel anyone that can't drive a manually shifted gearbox in traffic without "losing concentration" or "struggling" to drive really doesn't have the capability to drive safely at all. Really when driving a manual car I don't even give the actual driving a thought ... Just like jumping into a car with no synchro's, you simply double clutch the gearchanges... It's no big drama
I personally think it's the french that struggle to make a car with a decent autobox. We once owned a BX1600 automatic... god awful bloody thing it was, a motor and gearbox combination from hell. I own a Xantia 2litre 8valve VSX with a slugomatic gearbox. It's quite ok to drive (unlike the BX), but is never in the gear I want it to be in, and is a slug off the line.
The BX's and Xantias I've driven with proper manual gearbox have been bloody rippa's The BX is a revvy little hatch, and the Xantia feels vastly quicker and is a *much* nicer drive. Then again I don't live in heavy traffic where acceleration and 'drivability' matter little due to the fact your rarely moving, certianly never trying to accelate quickly.
I'm just annoyed you can't get XM's, V6 Xantias or C5's with a proper gearbox out here ... they all have those unreliable bloody slugomatics fitted
seeya,
Shane L.
'96 Big BX 2.1TD exclusive slugomatic (aka XM)
'85 CX2500 GTi Turbo Series II (whoo hooo)
'96 Xantia VSX slugomatic (sold !!)
and of course, lots of old Citroens, slowly rusting away in pieces
'85 CX2500 GTi Turbo Series II (whoo hooo)
'96 Xantia VSX slugomatic (sold !!)
and of course, lots of old Citroens, slowly rusting away in pieces
interesting.
Mothers 2.0 Auto is no slouch off the line & its a fully spec'd up estate so is running more weight than normal, infact it has eaten superiour stuff without any fuss. And thats before we've put it into 'sports' mode.
As I say the only problem I have found is that if you are cruising & floor it & she downchanges (like for over taking) it can bang into gear with quite some force. But thats the only complaint
Mothers 2.0 Auto is no slouch off the line & its a fully spec'd up estate so is running more weight than normal, infact it has eaten superiour stuff without any fuss. And thats before we've put it into 'sports' mode.
As I say the only problem I have found is that if you are cruising & floor it & she downchanges (like for over taking) it can bang into gear with quite some force. But thats the only complaint
-
- Posts: 622
- Joined: 22 Sep 2003, 18:06
- Location: Australia
- My Cars:
- Contact:
You must mean when it kicks down from 4th gear into a lower gear. I don't put it in 'D'rive unless I'm doing 80-100km/h (to bloody gutless to pull it's bulk around in 4th around town). As you said you will be in a contant state of 'kickdown'. It's interesting driving with my wife in our Xantia .... Never have a seen a car kick down to a lower gear so often. Sometimes the gutless bloody thing will kickdown with her driving 3 or 4 times up a steep grade. I just select the gear it should be in manually (ie: drag the bloody thing back to 2nd gear and lock it there) making it a much more comfortable car to drive ... But what's the point of a slugomatic gearbox if you need to frequently overide it's decision on what gear it should be in Certainly always being in a constant state of 'kickdown' heavily impacts fuel economy. It's really not enormously more frugal than my CX GTi Turbo.rossnunn wrote:interesting.
Mothers 2.0 Auto is no slouch off the line & its a fully spec'd up estate so is running more weight than normal, infact it has eaten superiour stuff without any fuss. And thats before we've put it into 'sports' mode.
As I say the only problem I have found is that if you are cruising & floor it & she downchanges (like for over taking) it can bang into gear with quite some force. But thats the only complaint
The thumping from 4th to 3rd will mostly go away if you drain the DIII from your gearbox and refill with DII.
edit: Oh bugger, don't put DII in your gearbox if it's the later AL4 gearbox, mine a '94 build Xantia without that gearbox that is known, even today still for it's thumping into gears.
seeya,
Shane L.
BTW: The fuel economy figures you guys all quote obviously aren't slugomatic Xantias. Mine will average about 27mpg around town (all cold starts, drives about 10km on average), and 32mpg on the highway). To put that into perspective, my CX GTi turbo returns 24mpg and 34mpg under the similar conditions.
'96 Big BX 2.1TD exclusive slugomatic (aka XM)
'85 CX2500 GTi Turbo Series II (whoo hooo)
'96 Xantia VSX slugomatic (sold !!)
and of course, lots of old Citroens, slowly rusting away in pieces
'85 CX2500 GTi Turbo Series II (whoo hooo)
'96 Xantia VSX slugomatic (sold !!)
and of course, lots of old Citroens, slowly rusting away in pieces
Her's is a 2000 model with a fuzzy-logic gearbox in. It really doesn't exhibit any of the problems you have commented on. Maybe it was a change that occured between the ph1 & ph2?
I've had no experiance of driving the ph1 other than our 1.8 16v manual (hatchback).
And as sharp as that is the 2.0 (estate) can easily show it a clean pair of heels.
I've had no experiance of driving the ph1 other than our 1.8 16v manual (hatchback).
And as sharp as that is the 2.0 (estate) can easily show it a clean pair of heels.
-
- Posts: 359
- Joined: 18 Jan 2005, 21:47
- Location: 5 miles N. of Boston, Lincs
- My Cars:
I'm not sure I can add anything constructive to this topic other than to add my own experience and feelings.
I started driving on cars with crash (no synchromesh) gearboxes where double declutching was essential and not a boy racers' fad. Within a very short space of time I didn't have to think about changing gear, it became an automatic function like breathing - you don't have to think about breathing, do you?
My wife is "automatic only" and when I bought my first XM twelve years or so ago she suggested I bought an auto so that she could drive it. She never has, too big she says, but I've never regretted having gone down the auto route. I never found the act of pushing a pedal and moving a lever particularly exciting.
I accept that there is a slight performance loss with the auto box but if I floor the accelerator on my V6 ( a rare occurrence) it goes very close to the red line before it changes up and in any case it is possible, and easy, to change gear manually.
I suppose it depends upon your driving attitude. I don't believe you should treat the public roads as racetracks, by all means press on but nowhere near the car's limit in performance or roadholding. Having said that, I do believe that, when overtaking, you should spend the minimum time possible on the wrong side of the road but that is an argument for a big, powerful engine, not for a manual change gearbox.
In this part of Lincolnshire the roads are straightish (but with a few bends). They are also bounded by ditches, dykes and drains which act as receptacles to the unwary Saturday night press on types.
It's really down to personal preference, I just don't understand the attitude of the "I wouldn't be seen dead in an automatic, it takes all the fun out of driving" type.
Cheers,
Derek
I started driving on cars with crash (no synchromesh) gearboxes where double declutching was essential and not a boy racers' fad. Within a very short space of time I didn't have to think about changing gear, it became an automatic function like breathing - you don't have to think about breathing, do you?
My wife is "automatic only" and when I bought my first XM twelve years or so ago she suggested I bought an auto so that she could drive it. She never has, too big she says, but I've never regretted having gone down the auto route. I never found the act of pushing a pedal and moving a lever particularly exciting.
I accept that there is a slight performance loss with the auto box but if I floor the accelerator on my V6 ( a rare occurrence) it goes very close to the red line before it changes up and in any case it is possible, and easy, to change gear manually.
I suppose it depends upon your driving attitude. I don't believe you should treat the public roads as racetracks, by all means press on but nowhere near the car's limit in performance or roadholding. Having said that, I do believe that, when overtaking, you should spend the minimum time possible on the wrong side of the road but that is an argument for a big, powerful engine, not for a manual change gearbox.
In this part of Lincolnshire the roads are straightish (but with a few bends). They are also bounded by ditches, dykes and drains which act as receptacles to the unwary Saturday night press on types.
It's really down to personal preference, I just don't understand the attitude of the "I wouldn't be seen dead in an automatic, it takes all the fun out of driving" type.
Cheers,
Derek
-
- Moderating Team
- Posts: 11563
- Joined: 02 Apr 2005, 16:11
- Location: Charmouth,Dorset
- My Cars: Currently:
C5 X7 VTR + Satnav Hdi estate Silver
C5 X7 VTR + Hdi Estate 2008 Red
In the past: 3, CX td Safaris and about 7, XM td estates. Lovely cars. - x 1199
Hi Derek
Crash gearboxes? you must be older than me! None of my early cars had synchro on 1st and only three speed boxes, in fact a few had very little at all but that wasn't by design!
I think the remark about not being seen dead in an auto is attributable to me, although that isnt exaxtly what I said, but I did subsequently say that was my personal opinion, I just like to have things as efficient, controllable and as easy to repair as possible, I also said that I could see the logic of them in traffic, so I am not slating auto boxes, just saying I personally dont like them.
Crash gearboxes? you must be older than me! None of my early cars had synchro on 1st and only three speed boxes, in fact a few had very little at all but that wasn't by design!
I think the remark about not being seen dead in an auto is attributable to me, although that isnt exaxtly what I said, but I did subsequently say that was my personal opinion, I just like to have things as efficient, controllable and as easy to repair as possible, I also said that I could see the logic of them in traffic, so I am not slating auto boxes, just saying I personally dont like them.
-
- Posts: 622
- Joined: 22 Sep 2003, 18:06
- Location: Australia
- My Cars:
- Contact:
Hi Guys,
it's not the speed that annoys me with slugomatics ... Most of the local cars out here are *very* fast and automatic. The issue is with the french cars and they way they love to combine small engines with slugomatic gearboxs.... There gear selection isn't great... I find I manually lock the slugomatic into 1st and 2nd gear and run them out to 4000rpm ... otherwise you need to have your foot down really hard to stop it changing up.... It greatly agitates me the gear selection, just 'cos I don't have my foot rammed to the floor forcing kickdown, doesn't mean I want to change into top at 2000rpm I think I've got my wife changing it manually now ...
Last week she was driving up a steepish incline it changed down about 3times before I leaned over an changed the b@stard back manually locking the higher gear out. ie: she's loosing speed so puts her foot down harder ... car kicks down, now were accellerating so lift off, car changes back to previous gear, so she puts her foot back down hard to hold speed ........ and on the cycle goes until me the passenger gets p!$$ed off with the bloody thing.
Then we have the fact they appear to go belly up as a pastime, and I can't fix them (a specialist high $$$$ job) .... I HATE paying through the nose to get things fixed, especially when it could have been avoided in the first place.
The day I need to commute through heavy traffic regually there is no doubt at all I'll get a slugomatic horrible bloody thing... But until then I'm going to go out of my way to ensure I never get another one of the horrid bloody things in my household.
seeya,
Shane L.
it's not the speed that annoys me with slugomatics ... Most of the local cars out here are *very* fast and automatic. The issue is with the french cars and they way they love to combine small engines with slugomatic gearboxs.... There gear selection isn't great... I find I manually lock the slugomatic into 1st and 2nd gear and run them out to 4000rpm ... otherwise you need to have your foot down really hard to stop it changing up.... It greatly agitates me the gear selection, just 'cos I don't have my foot rammed to the floor forcing kickdown, doesn't mean I want to change into top at 2000rpm I think I've got my wife changing it manually now ...
Last week she was driving up a steepish incline it changed down about 3times before I leaned over an changed the b@stard back manually locking the higher gear out. ie: she's loosing speed so puts her foot down harder ... car kicks down, now were accellerating so lift off, car changes back to previous gear, so she puts her foot back down hard to hold speed ........ and on the cycle goes until me the passenger gets p!$$ed off with the bloody thing.
Then we have the fact they appear to go belly up as a pastime, and I can't fix them (a specialist high $$$$ job) .... I HATE paying through the nose to get things fixed, especially when it could have been avoided in the first place.
The day I need to commute through heavy traffic regually there is no doubt at all I'll get a slugomatic horrible bloody thing... But until then I'm going to go out of my way to ensure I never get another one of the horrid bloody things in my household.
seeya,
Shane L.
'96 Big BX 2.1TD exclusive slugomatic (aka XM)
'85 CX2500 GTi Turbo Series II (whoo hooo)
'96 Xantia VSX slugomatic (sold !!)
and of course, lots of old Citroens, slowly rusting away in pieces
'85 CX2500 GTi Turbo Series II (whoo hooo)
'96 Xantia VSX slugomatic (sold !!)
and of course, lots of old Citroens, slowly rusting away in pieces