Bad start on AX 1.5 Diesel elation

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vanny
Posts: 767
Joined: 16 May 2002, 21:08

Bad start on AX 1.5 Diesel elation

Post by vanny » 06 Nov 2002, 17:42

Have a 1.5d N reg Citroen elation to get back on its legs. Its really really ruff to start, takes a long time to get going then blast black smoke out the back when it eventually does start.
Its also going flat in under 24hrs, the battery is only a few years old and from Citroen themselves (no one, and i mean NO ONE could provide us with a battery for it other than Citroen, and it was there last one).
Mix into this its terrible on cold start, and is going to be spending a week in Scotland in December!!
Im guessing that there is an electrical problem connected to all of this, ill re- build the earth strap and check the glow plugs (can i check them the same way as a BX, disconnect the wire and check the individual resistance). Anybody have anywhere else to look??
There is a real nasty noise comming from under the hood as well, i have a feeling that it is the glow plug relay, but dont see how this would make nasty 'relay boucing' type noise after inital heating. Does the relay have a post heat function? is there an easy way to test its function (pull a plug out and watch it glow i guess).
Is there anything else i need to check on the car for the extreme climates of Scotland??
Is there likely to be any gain from changing the oil? Im fully considering changing air and fuel filter, along with totally flushing the cooling system etc
Have to point out that i love taking the p**s out of my dad now. Inherited the BX off him in a terrible state, had to be jump started everytime, never ever started when left more than twenty minutes, now it starts first time everytime (even if it is left for two weeks), he he he
Vanny
Merseyside, UK
Citroenbx19rd@hotmail.com
http://www.bxproject.co.uk

RichardW
Forum Treasurer
Posts: 8920
Joined: 07 Aug 2002, 17:12
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Bad start on AX 1.5 Diesel elation

Post by RichardW » 06 Nov 2002, 18:27

Vanny,
I think you know the drill....
Glow plugs has got to be your first port of call. If you are getting reasonable turning over speed then the earths etc should be OK, but definitely worth checking. Try a second heating and see if that improves the starting.
Yes there is a post start glow period, but the relay should stay in all the time I'd have thought. The relay should stay in whilst the plugs are heating. I guess it can be tested, but you'd need a wiring diagram to see how it works.
If that doesn't work, then you need to be thinking about compression test, checking the valve clearances, checking the timing belt etc etc.
I reckon the plugs will fix it.
Richard

Gaz
Posts: 40
Joined: 05 Jul 2002, 15:22

Bad start on AX 1.5 Diesel elation

Post by Gaz » 06 Nov 2002, 19:23

I wasn't too sure about the relay on my xantia too when I first bought it (turned out to be 3 knackered plugs). I just connected a piece of wire to the end of the glow plug rail and then routed it into my car to the dashboard where I connected a resistor and small LED (or simple bulb). I left this on the car after the problem was fixed as I can now tell exactly when the plugs are ACTUALLY on, not just when the pre-heater light tells me they are heating. With this you can also check to see if the relay peripherals are correct too, if the plugs stay on for the 3 mins or go off early due to 60 degree water temp (after a short stop). Hope this helps a little.
Gaz

FFX-DM
Posts: 111
Joined: 22 Oct 2002, 21:45

Bad start on AX 1.5 Diesel elation

Post by FFX-DM » 06 Nov 2002, 19:51

Hi
Sounds a bit like my AX 1.4 Diesel. It's a mystical black art to start it, and then I get the smoke out the back, but after that it runs absolutely fine and starts up easily when warm. I believe that the black smoke is down to me having to blip the throttle to start it, causing surplus fuel to be burned off. This has been a fairly consistent problem through servicing, glow plug changing, cam belt replacing and timing checking, but if you do solve it, let us know what worked.
Anyhow, my late lamented tame mechanic pointed out to me the cold start mechanism was sh*gged. I don't know if that's the proper name for it, but basically it works with a bimetallic strip which is attached to the throttle cable. When the engine is cold you get a bit more fuel, when it's warm, this slackens off and the fuel input is reduced. I have always applied the heavy right foot technique for starting, because I am too damn lazy to replace it (especially now I wish to sell the car).

vanny
Posts: 767
Joined: 16 May 2002, 21:08

Bad start on AX 1.5 Diesel elation

Post by vanny » 07 Nov 2002, 00:08

Like your self i also use the blast on the gas trick, It was realatively easy to fix the starting problems on the BX, the most notable difference being made after changing the radio!! Weird.
Thanks for the thoughts
Vanny
Merseyside, UK
Citroenbx19rd@hotmail.com
http://www.bxproject.co.uk

DLM
Posts: 524
Joined: 13 Aug 2001, 03:01

Bad start on AX 1.5 Diesel elation

Post by DLM » 07 Nov 2002, 01:09

I too "look after" a 1.5D - this one a peugeot 106. For reasons nothing to do with me, it's only maintenance has been via a Pug dealer, maintenance more by the depth of pockets rather than by the schedule.
It too seems a bit more temperamental than the BX to start, but runs fine thereafter. It's in need of a coolant change, cambelt replacement and probably some glowplugs. If I get let at it properly I'll let you know how I get on.
David

spanners
Posts: 77
Joined: 10 Sep 2002, 03:29

Bad start on AX 1.5 Diesel elation

Post by spanners » 12 Nov 2002, 03:35

very common forthe 1.5d to lose their compression (tight tappets) need to remove tappets and replace with smaller ones.