Swing Arm Bearings - How many ?

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mbunting
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Joined: 21 Dec 2001, 16:19

Swing Arm Bearings - How many ?

Post by mbunting » 04 Nov 2002, 16:03

Guess what, my Xantia hatch failed it's MOT twice in three days, on totally different items, and two different garrages.
I think the second was more honest than the first !
Needless to say, I'm replacing the rear arm bearings. Reading the various posts, I have all the symptoms ( rough ride at the rear - new spheres, squeaking when the back drops etc.. ).
One quick question. Are there one or two bearings per side to replace ? The chap from A.S seems to think one, whereas some of the websites I have seen seem to show two per side.
Any help appreciated - doing the job right now - one side at a time just in-case I need two per side <img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>

alan s
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Post by alan s » 04 Nov 2002, 16:32

Forget how many bearings unless you want to turn a fairly easy job into one full of headaches. Buy them as a kit. That should include the bearings (2) possibly spacer & thrust washers required to set the pre-load. I would suggest that any less would be false economy and you could end up doing the job twice, or maybe 3 times <img src=icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle> and eventually in desperation give up & buy the kit anyway; you wouldn't be the first.
Also, fit a couple of grease nipples in there whilst you've got it out as a precaution to help keep the water out in future.
Alan S

mbunting
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Post by mbunting » 04 Nov 2002, 17:42

Thanks Alan.
Unfortunately, we're a little off the beaten track here when it comes to public transport, so I'm stuck with what I've got at the moment, besides, the Andyspares catalog from the local GSF only lists:
BX / C15 / Xan Sal repair kit. 83-93 rear arm N42358A £15UKP
The car is currently unusable as it's up on stands with one side missing.
Another quick question: how do you get the hydraulic units out ? I've removed both R clips ( eventually ), I can't get to the breather / return pipes easily.
I've worked out that it must move towards the front of the car ( ie. compress ), but I can't get it out - it seems to be attached to the swing arm at the other end by pure pressure - does it come away from the arm here ?
Regards
Mat.

DLM
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Post by DLM » 05 Nov 2002, 00:11

Hope you don't mind me butting in, but a couple of points:
BX / C15 / Xan Sal repair kit. 83-93 rear arm N42358A £15UKP
was a (clearance?) offer from August-on on a kit from a slighly different manufacturer(A&S?). I bought one in September but think it may be out of stock now. The normal kit (Timken) is over £20 but WELL worth it. Essentially just about all parts of the assembly wear over time. The outer metal rings are referred to in the kit instructions as "wear rings" for example....and the seals won't come out without a fight and almost certainly will be damaged. Then there's the task of removing the bearing inner race which normally can't be done without mangling the dust-sleeve plastic tube.
My local GS&F can normally order in the kit on a next-day basis.
If the Xantia is anything like the BX, then the rear-cylinder/piston boot IS quite reluctant to leave the rear-arm recess and needs careful prising out, possibly with protection on the boot to avoid damaging it. Any residual suspension pressure doesn't help, either.
As for the grease nipples, well that's fine if you've got the necessary time & tap & die set but your priority seems to be getting back on the road.

Have you managed to disassemble the arm components yet?

shaunthesheep
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Post by shaunthesheep » 05 Nov 2002, 00:21

matt,
the cylinder piston rod is a tight fit, i had to prise mine out with a large flat bladed screwdriver, where the piston sits in the anti roll bar socket, at the bottom, you should see a small gap which you should be able to get a screwdriver into & prise it out, you might waht to order new piston boot's while you have got the chance to replace them.
regarding the bearings, it is better to buy the complete repair kit.
dom

mbunting
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Joined: 21 Dec 2001, 16:19

Post by mbunting » 05 Nov 2002, 00:37

Well, shortly after posting my message, I went down to GSF by bus / tram - this is 10 miles & 15 minutes by car - eg 1/2 hour. By public transport it took me 3.5 hours.
I've got the repair kit from GSF ( N42358 - SKF ). I'm still trying to get the unit out. Other than that, everything is ready to go..
Unfortunately, the rubber sleve has come off the ram, it still intact, it just slipped off while I was trying to get the bugger off. No major panic, I'll re-fill it with grease and check it's secure before putting it back on.
I need to do both sides, but I'm only doing the left at the moment. As with all things, it's such a big job the first time you do it, but I suppose in another 140,000 miles time I'll know what I'm doing !!!
Now you can laugh...
I'm outside, pitch black, with a highly powerful security/spotlight on the floor pointing underneath the car. It's better than daylight, and the heat coming off it is keeping me warm !
The only reason I'm writing this is because I'm on a 'personal needs break' !
Will post my progress later.
Mat.

NiSk
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Post by NiSk » 05 Nov 2002, 13:38

This little drawing might help you . . .
http://citroeny.cz/servis/xantiaser/zadni_rameno.gif
Best of luck,
//NiSk

mbunting
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Post by mbunting » 05 Nov 2002, 23:31

Thanks folks, being without a car is really causing grief !
So much so, that I'm considering buying a banger for £50 to keep me running !!!
Can anyone tell me, please please please...
What is the size of the nut which goes on the end of the swing arm bolt, you know, the one that you have to put the socket through the pipe coil to get to.
None of my sockets are big enough, it seems to be approx 25mmm.
Any help appreciated.
Mat.

mbunting
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Post by mbunting » 06 Nov 2002, 01:48

Mat,
Its 24mm.
Please stop talking to yourself !
Mat.

mbunting
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Joined: 21 Dec 2001, 16:19

Post by mbunting » 07 Nov 2002, 16:50

Well, I've got one of the arms off - easy when you have the right tools. I borrowed a 24mm socket from work - but the arm wasn't long enough to get some torque, so just by chance, I had a look at my telescopic wheel brace ( a cheap 3.99 from H***ords), and noticed it's a simple 17mm socket - took this off and replaced with the 24mm and got some serious leverage <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
The inside bearing looks absolutely buggered, the outside not too bad - will be able to see more when I have them out..
It's funny, I've read all the horror stories about this job, but as long as you have the right tools and are prepared, I don't see why it should take longer than 2hrs per side ( perhaps less ! ).
Mat.

mbunting
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Joined: 21 Dec 2001, 16:19

Post by mbunting » 07 Nov 2002, 17:33

Right,
Both the inside and outside bearings were shot. On the inside, all the rollers were concentrated on one side, and it looks like it's gouged a little out of the arm edge.
The outside had also suffered from what I can describe as 'bearing cage failure', but doesn't seem to have suffered any damage.
A question for those in the know..
The repair kit includes a plastic 'sleeve' which according to the diagram on bx.citroen.org should go into the arm.
However, the hole in the arm is too small to accept the sleeve - or is it simply an 'aid' to getting the bearings / spacers etc onto the pins ?
Cheers.
Mat.

shaunthesheep
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Post by shaunthesheep » 10 Nov 2002, 03:48

mat,
i found out that the black tube was to protect the bolt from dirt, grit etc..., to get mine to fit (it is a tight fit) i had to give it a tap with a rubber mallet.
are you going to be fitting grease nipples at the same time?, to save you having to do this again in the future??, as i've got a picture that might help you.
dom

mbunting
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Joined: 21 Dec 2001, 16:19

Post by mbunting » 14 Nov 2002, 22:54

Well, it has been a long and troublesome experience, but I can see a light at the end of the tunnel ( again ), and this time, I don't think it's a train coming the other way !
Some facts to help others...
1) The bearings on both sides were shot to pieces ( literally )
2) The socket size for the through bolt is 24mm
3) There are two bearings per side - but get the refurb kit anyway !
4) The arm can be taken off carefully without removing the ABS sensor or shield ( the bolts for the wheel shield sometimes shear off ).
5) The job is actually quite easy - with the following conditions..
a) You can get the spheres off - I only replaced my 10k ago - easy.
b) You can get the damned pins out - they tend to sieze up !
6) As well as the kits, get the following BEFORE starting the job..
a) 2 x seals for the feed into the hydraulic unit.
b) 2 x seals for the sphere / unit join.
c) a can of WD40 or equivalent.
7) Ideally, a few days before you start, spray the forwardmost pins liberally with WD40, they really are pigs to get out.
Now for some info..
I haven't fitted nipples this time around - if I still have the car in another 100,000 miles, I'll do it then !
I did the left side of the car, a garrage did the right side of the car.
On the left side, the seal in the unit was buggered ( 6a )
The garrage damaged the seal between the sphere and unit, and it was p***ing LHM all over the place. 3hr trek to GSF ( 6b ).
Now, the arm on the left is still moving quite a lot. The bearings were a nice tight fit, so I think I simply haven't tightened up the bolt enough. Any comments ?
In particular:
-I cleared out the bearings / tube
-I put a new tube in.
-The bearings and oil seal were put into the tube, and gently hammered in with a rubber mallett.
The MOT tester asked how I tensioned the bearings... what does he mean ???
Thanks for all your help, I hope these experiences have been useful. I certainly enjoyed the job, even though I was sat out in the dark, in the rain, and in the rain run-off area from the garrages !

alan s
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Post by alan s » 15 Nov 2002, 03:07

"Now, the arm on the left is still moving quite a lot. The bearings were a nice tight fit, so I think I simply haven't tightened up the bolt enough. Any comments ?
The MOT tester asked how I tensioned the bearings... what does he mean ???"
It's possible that the two points above are related.
Normally, kits for these type of jobs consist of a bolt with a spacer to fit between the sets of bearings, bearings and spacer washers. When assembled and tightened to a specified torque, that gives the assembly a "pre load." In other words it doesn't flop up & down or side to side but is a nice neat fit that moves with a bit of force applied.
If one has the wobblies, I'd suggest you check the tension on the bolt or check that you didn't have a spacer left over<img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle>
Alan S

mbunting
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Post by mbunting » 15 Nov 2002, 18:25

Thanks Alan.
I definitely put the bits in that I got..
1 x Inner plastic tube
2 x bearings
2 x metal things like this ( one for each side )..
|
=
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2 x soft plastic 'oil seals' which mate to the above.
1 x long bolt.
1 x metal sleve for bolt.
1 x nut
1 x washer to use between nut & chassis
Thats all I got in each kit ( I got one for each side ).
I guess I haven't tightened up the nut enough, as the bearings etc were a snug fit in the arm.
Mat.