Petrol or diesel?

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Petrol or diesel?

Post by bpwoody » 10 Oct 2005, 20:03

My last 2 cars have been diesels (BX & Xsara) & have been cheap to run, but am now looking for another car & am veering towards a petrol model (another Xsara probably). Reasons; 1. Diesels cost more to buy s/hand 2. I don't do a lot of miles, so won't save much in fuel 3. HDi's rely on ECU's to run them, so no real reliability difference to a petrol engine 4. No (?) or fewer cambelt changes 5. Must be more fun to drive!
I suppose a petrol model will depreciate more quickly & is more of a fire hazard in a crash - can anyone else defend the diesel, or do you agree with me? If I could buy a 3/4 year old diesel without all the poxy electronics (can do without ABS, thanks) I probably would!
Dare I say I am tempted by a Mondeo - very well reviewed, but dirt cheap at the moment, why is this? Otherwise, am looking for a recent-ish Xsara Estate.
Cheers, Paul.

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Post by mezuk04 » 10 Oct 2005, 20:30

Im 20 and bought my Xantia only about 2 months ago and I love her.....and i certainly will be having another Citroen for a few years yet to come....possibly another Xantia as an Xm is just probably slightly out of my league at the moment.

Would probably never go back to petrols....not sure why....just wouldnt :lol:

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Post by yangreen » 10 Oct 2005, 21:08

I'm a convert after many years of dieseling. In the end, winter mornings filled with taxi/tractor rattle just got too much!

Petrols are so much more fun to drive once you get over the excitement of a turbo diesel.

The only downsides of petrol I can see is the economy and that electronic ignition stuff you need. That and the fact you can't run them on veggie oil but then you can't with a HDi either.

My Audi is about the same as my Pug 306 DTurbo in terms of performance (more power but more weight also) but nicer to drive because the power band is very flat from 1800rpm all the way to 6000rpm. By the time the Pug was kicking out a nice bit of power, you were rapidly heading to the red line!

I'd rather buy a cheaper petrol and spend the savings on extra fuel which is what I'm doing!

Am thinking of getting a V6 Xantia though which may be taking things too far...

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Petrol or Diesel

Post by Gregg1100 » 10 Oct 2005, 21:16

Hi, Yangreen,
May be selling my 2 litre, 16v VSX Xantia shortly.. Pic can be seen as link on signature on my posts. 89k.
I for one will be going back to diesel. Got an L reg Xant that I am resussitating, :)

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Post by James.UK » 11 Oct 2005, 17:03

My ZX is the first diesel I ever had.. Its brill! :D No ECU, turbo, cat, etc.. Just a basic engine, no frills, no nonsense, it starts when I turn the key, and stops when I turn it off. Its comfortable, holds the road well, economic, dosen't rust, and is invisable in a crowed of two.. I love it.. :D

I would never go back to petrol engines...

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Post by splat2 » 11 Oct 2005, 17:33

I commute a hundred odd miles a day and find the diesel much more relaxing to drive. Kind of a solid, dependable sort of feeling. Sure it can be frustratingly slow at times, but I know that when it feels like that I'm trying to drive too fast anyway.

If I had a fast car I'd probably be dead by now.

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Post by yangreen » 11 Oct 2005, 17:42

I've just driven a brand new Audi A6 2.7 V6 TDi twin turbo diesel and that was incredible! You often hear journo's claiming that a diesel feels like a petrol but this really does! Very little lag, a frightening amount of power (about 170bhp with 280lb/ft torque) and it sounded soooo nice!

You still suffer from the low max rev point though and it gets there bloomin' quickly when you nail it!

So there's the answer. Simply buy a £30,000 Audi!

That said, the dash display did tell me I was achieving 24mpg...


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x 10

Post by Stewart(oily) » 11 Oct 2005, 19:05

Diesel forever, my 19tD BX pulls like a 3 litre petrol when the boost starts, massive amounts of torque, lean back and get dragged up hills effortlessly, 85MPH@3000, nice and quiet yes I know I have to change up sooner but with a petrol motor wouldnt I be changing gear on hills etc too, as well as the economy, fire risk etc no thank you I have a petrol lawnmower, outboard motor and generator, thats quite enough.

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Post by mbunting » 11 Oct 2005, 19:15

Well, I can speak from experience.

My last three cars have been:

Xantia TD
405 TD
AX 1.5D

And now, a 405 2.0 ( petrol ) GTX Automatic Estate.

I can honestly say that the 405 is the most relaxing to drive of them all, but only because it's got auto and cruise. If it was a manual, it would be GUTLESS compared to the TD's, but it's quieter and smoother.

I only really got about 40-43mpg out of the xantia, and about 50 out of the 405 TD, and 65 - 70 out of the AX. The petrol is returning about 36mpg at the moment, which I'm actually quite happy with, considering the benefits of the auto and cruise, aircon etc.

Would I go back to diesel ? Probably at some stage, although I'd really like an auto ( I need to stretch my legs often, being 6ft 5 ), and cruise control is great. Unfortunately, you can't get a TD auto Xantia / 405 ( only the atmo diesel Xantia ), so they're really out of the question.

My next plan is to actually convert the 405 to LPG, thus giving me an effective 70 - 90 mpg ( depending upon lpg cost ) - I know I'm on thin ice with this if/when the govt change the tax levies !

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Post by Kowalski » 11 Oct 2005, 21:20

mbunting wrote: I can honestly say that the 405 is the most relaxing to drive of them all, but only because it's got auto and cruise. If it was a manual, it would be GUTLESS compared to the TD's, but it's quieter and smoother.
The 2.0 litre 8 valve engine that the 405 gets gives 132 lb/ft of torque at 2750rpm and has a fairly flat torque curve (as do most 8 valve petrols). The TDs don't have a flat torque curve, you get a big surge and then a fade, they give 147lb/ft of torque (only 10% more). So whilst the TD has more peak torque, it has a limited torque band and I find I'm forever falling out of it (below 2000rpm) and then the engine is pretty gutless, where as the petrol would be willing to pull. The fact that the petrol will pull to the red line and give 123bhp instead of the 92bhp that the TD gives will more than make up for it not surging!
you can't get a TD auto Xantia / 405 ( only the atmo diesel Xantia ), so they're really out of the question.
The TD was available with the autobox in the Xantia, initially when the HDI came out you couldn't get the HDI with the autobox. If you wanted an auto, you got the TD instead, eventually that was sorted out. The same scenario is played out with the C5 now, if you want an auto, you get the 2.2 HDI instead of the newer 2.0 HDI 16 valve.

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Post by yangreen » 12 Oct 2005, 08:55

You raise a good point there Kowalski. I've driven a Renault Migraine which has 115bhp like my Audi yet the multi-valve modern engine in the Renault requires you to rev the nuts of it to get at the power.

The Audi is much more relaxing with a power band that spreads right across the rev range. I rarely feel the need to rev beyong 4000 revs so I drive it more like a diesel as 20mph is fine in fourth gear.

Pick up is better than a diesel though.


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Post by jeremy » 12 Oct 2005, 09:11

This is the way these things go. I think the current 110 BHP 1.6 diesel as fitted in the C4 may have a time limited max boost as do some others and of course some are now fitted with 6 speed gearboxes (C5?). What these are like to drive I don't know butb mast say I do prefer something with a good broad powerband that doesn't need to be rowed along.

At least fuel injection should have got rid of asthsmatic twin choke carburrettors which seem to be set so that you have no power at all of can watch the gauge go down.

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Post by DoubleChevron » 12 Oct 2005, 09:55

The answer is simple :mrgreen:

Go and get yourself a CX 2500 GTi Turbo ... 0-100km/h in about 7.8 seconds, nearly 300Nm of torque, about 170hp ...... No need for lots of gearchanging .... You don't need to rev the sh!t out of it Image Image Image Image Image

Shane L.