Since ive had the car, about 3 weeks now I always felt that the hydrulics wasn't perfect but expected the odd issue to arise.
Well as i came to the car in the car park at work this evening to return home i noticed that the back end was fairly low down (not much gap between the tyre and wheel arch panel, looking straight on at it) yet the front seemed to be more or less fine.
Started the car and checked the back to see what happened and the back end went down a little (just enough to notice) and then about 5 secs later the clicks increased and the back end rose up to normal ride height.
On the weeks holiday at Cornwall, there would be times when me and the 3 other passengers would get in the car and when the car started, immediately the car sank incredibly quickly but rose within about 10-15 secs both front and back.
Its only today though that i took the time to check what it did, but today's effect was not similar to the car 'dropping' like it did a few times on holiday last week.
There is no weight in the back to mention apart from a boot changer, the spare wheel and my high vis jacket...so any pointers would be appreciated...also on holiday it would "squeal" the odd time and then level and be fine.
Hopefully ive described as good as i can to give an idea of a problem.
[?]
Xantia Hydrulics Issue
Moderator: RichardW
-
tonespeed1999
- Posts: 205
- Joined: 10 Nov 2004, 23:30
- Location: United Kingdom
- My Cars:
what you have described is quite normal for a xantia.the suspention is weight sensitive,when someone gets in the car it will sink slightly,the height correctors are connected to the anti roll bars.its a complicated system if your not familiar with citroens suspension system. the squeel you are hearing is possibly the system building up the hydraulic pressure.
I do not think this is normal and think you have a flat anti-sink sphere.
http://www.andyspares.com/discussionfor ... C_ID=14522
http://www.andyspares.com/discussionfor ... C_ID=15203
Jeremy
http://www.andyspares.com/discussionfor ... C_ID=14522
http://www.andyspares.com/discussionfor ... C_ID=15203
Jeremy
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by mezuk04</i>
Since ive had the car, about 3 weeks now I always felt that the hydrulics wasn't perfect but expected the odd issue to arise.
Well as i came to the car in the car park at work this evening to return home i noticed that the back end was fairly low down (not much gap between the tyre and wheel arch panel, looking straight on at it) yet the front seemed to be more or less fine.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Not sure what you consider "fairly low down" but the rear wheel arch is about level with the top of the wheel or slightly above (maybe 10mm) at normal height. This is just the way the body is styled.
So as far as I'm concerned thats normal height. If you can see a big gap between the wheel and the rear guard its too high.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Started the car and checked the back to see what happened and the back end went down a little (just enough to notice) and then about 5 secs later the clicks increased and the back end rose up to normal ride height.
On the weeks holiday at Cornwall, there would be times when me and the 3 other passengers would get in the car and when the car started, immediately the car sank incredibly quickly but rose within about 10-15 secs both front and back.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Sank as you got into the car ? (Which is normal) Or after you started the engine ? (Which isn't)
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Its only today though that i took the time to check what it did, but today's effect was not similar to the car 'dropping' like it did a few times on holiday last week.
There is no weight in the back to mention apart from a boot changer, the spare wheel and my high vis jacket...so any pointers would be appreciated...also on holiday it would "squeal" the odd time and then level and be fine.
Hopefully ive described as good as i can to give an idea of a problem.
[?]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Sounds like it could be the anti-sink sphere, symptoms of that being faulty are the back going down faster and further than it should overnight, and sometimes the back height dropping suddenly after starting the motor before lifting up again.
Has the accumulator been checked/replaced as well ? A flat accumulator will also speed up the sinking process, as when the height of the car first starts to sink the accumulator tops it up a few times which helps prolong the sinking process too.
If the suspension is sinking at a normal rate I'd expect to see no sinking at the front or back after about 6 hours, and over night it will probably be about an inch down at the back and no change at the front...
Regards,
Simon
Since ive had the car, about 3 weeks now I always felt that the hydrulics wasn't perfect but expected the odd issue to arise.
Well as i came to the car in the car park at work this evening to return home i noticed that the back end was fairly low down (not much gap between the tyre and wheel arch panel, looking straight on at it) yet the front seemed to be more or less fine.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Not sure what you consider "fairly low down" but the rear wheel arch is about level with the top of the wheel or slightly above (maybe 10mm) at normal height. This is just the way the body is styled.
So as far as I'm concerned thats normal height. If you can see a big gap between the wheel and the rear guard its too high.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Started the car and checked the back to see what happened and the back end went down a little (just enough to notice) and then about 5 secs later the clicks increased and the back end rose up to normal ride height.
On the weeks holiday at Cornwall, there would be times when me and the 3 other passengers would get in the car and when the car started, immediately the car sank incredibly quickly but rose within about 10-15 secs both front and back.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Sank as you got into the car ? (Which is normal) Or after you started the engine ? (Which isn't)
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Its only today though that i took the time to check what it did, but today's effect was not similar to the car 'dropping' like it did a few times on holiday last week.
There is no weight in the back to mention apart from a boot changer, the spare wheel and my high vis jacket...so any pointers would be appreciated...also on holiday it would "squeal" the odd time and then level and be fine.
Hopefully ive described as good as i can to give an idea of a problem.
[?]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Sounds like it could be the anti-sink sphere, symptoms of that being faulty are the back going down faster and further than it should overnight, and sometimes the back height dropping suddenly after starting the motor before lifting up again.
Has the accumulator been checked/replaced as well ? A flat accumulator will also speed up the sinking process, as when the height of the car first starts to sink the accumulator tops it up a few times which helps prolong the sinking process too.
If the suspension is sinking at a normal rate I'd expect to see no sinking at the front or back after about 6 hours, and over night it will probably be about an inch down at the back and no change at the front...
Regards,
Simon
Another point that Chris has failed to mention, there is very little difference between the intermediate ride height, and the full position, (if any). Another thing its got a tendancy to do is make a "farting" noise when you turn off the engine and get out, as the car will sink slightly straight away. We have greased the height correction "rods" and connectors under the car, which are fairly free moving, but after that we are clueless!
Hopefully this works
This is at crouched level after it has been sat for 2 hours in the car park after a 40 minute drive on the A1.
<img src="http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a219/ ... ture15.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">
<img src="http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a219/ ... shabba.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">
This is at crouched level after it has been sat for 2 hours in the car park after a 40 minute drive on the A1.
<img src="http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a219/ ... ture15.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">
<img src="http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a219/ ... shabba.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">
Is the ride height as high as that with the engine idling ?
Just going by the pictures, that rear height looks about 20mm too high, while the front height is too high by even more, maybe even as much as 30 or 40mm too high. This will cause the car to roll a lot more in cornering, and feel a bit unstable, due the the high centre of gravity. The ride will also be "unusual" - it definately won't be riding properly.
Trust me, I've tried setting the ride height higher like this, and its not good... [:D]
I highly suggest that you measure the height based on the ground clearance measurement as indicated in the following scan:
http://citroeny.cz/servis/xantiaser/nas ... dvozku.jpg
This should be checked with height lever set to normal, the engine idling, and after the height has stabalized, on a flat even hard surface.
What size tyres does the car have ?
The height that it is set to now (just judging by the pictures) looks suspiciously similar to the height that you would obtain by measuring the fully down height and the fully up height, and setting it to half way between, which is NOT the correct height, despite what some people believe. It needs to be checked based on the ground clearance measurement.
If there is any chance that the height corrector settings have been fiddled with by a previous well meaning owner (or yourself for that matter!) and the ground clearance measurement agrees the height is too high, you would need to adjust the height correctors...
You'll need either drive on ramps, a pit, or a hoist to do the adjustment. Try using the forum search, as there is a recent thread where I describe the process in some detail...
Regards,
Simon
Just going by the pictures, that rear height looks about 20mm too high, while the front height is too high by even more, maybe even as much as 30 or 40mm too high. This will cause the car to roll a lot more in cornering, and feel a bit unstable, due the the high centre of gravity. The ride will also be "unusual" - it definately won't be riding properly.
Trust me, I've tried setting the ride height higher like this, and its not good... [:D]
I highly suggest that you measure the height based on the ground clearance measurement as indicated in the following scan:
http://citroeny.cz/servis/xantiaser/nas ... dvozku.jpg
This should be checked with height lever set to normal, the engine idling, and after the height has stabalized, on a flat even hard surface.
What size tyres does the car have ?
The height that it is set to now (just judging by the pictures) looks suspiciously similar to the height that you would obtain by measuring the fully down height and the fully up height, and setting it to half way between, which is NOT the correct height, despite what some people believe. It needs to be checked based on the ground clearance measurement.
If there is any chance that the height corrector settings have been fiddled with by a previous well meaning owner (or yourself for that matter!) and the ground clearance measurement agrees the height is too high, you would need to adjust the height correctors...
You'll need either drive on ramps, a pit, or a hoist to do the adjustment. Try using the forum search, as there is a recent thread where I describe the process in some detail...
Regards,
Simon
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by wilkobob</i>
Another point that Chris has failed to mention, there is very little difference between the intermediate ride height, and the full position, (if any). Another thing its got a tendancy to do is make a "farting" noise when you turn off the engine and get out, as the car will sink slightly straight away. We have greased the height correction "rods" and connectors under the car, which are fairly free moving, but after that we are clueless!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Ah yes, see my last post, the height seems to be set too high. The "farting noise" could just be a sign that the front strut rams are a bit sticky and need greasing, but I would attend to the height measuring/adjustment first and take it from there.
Regards,
Simon
Another point that Chris has failed to mention, there is very little difference between the intermediate ride height, and the full position, (if any). Another thing its got a tendancy to do is make a "farting" noise when you turn off the engine and get out, as the car will sink slightly straight away. We have greased the height correction "rods" and connectors under the car, which are fairly free moving, but after that we are clueless!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Ah yes, see my last post, the height seems to be set too high. The "farting noise" could just be a sign that the front strut rams are a bit sticky and need greasing, but I would attend to the height measuring/adjustment first and take it from there.
Regards,
Simon
Ok so just been out to do the measurements in the four different settings.
I measured from the ground up through the centre of the wheel to the start of the body panel this was also the same for the front, measurements were taken from the drivers side only since there was a car to close to mine on the passenger side.
When Parked without the engine running (left in normal height) - Rear = 65cm Front = 66cm
Normal Ride Height at Idling - Rear = 63cm Front = 64.5cm
Intermediate Ride Height at Idling - Rear = 67cm Front = 68.5cm
Maximum Ride Height at Idling - Rear = 71cm Front = 72.5cm
Minimum Ride Height at Idling - Rear = 55.5cm Front = 59cm
These measurements were taken with me NOT sat in the car at anytime, even to start the engine.
The tyre size is 185/65/R15 which is correct for the car and the sticker on the door pillar.
I did the lowest setting last and then when i set the position back to normal ride height the car didnt move at all after a minute or so, as soon as i sat in the car it sank (due to my weight) and then immediatly rose to the normal ride height setting (i imagine).
Think this as best described as possible!
I measured from the ground up through the centre of the wheel to the start of the body panel this was also the same for the front, measurements were taken from the drivers side only since there was a car to close to mine on the passenger side.
When Parked without the engine running (left in normal height) - Rear = 65cm Front = 66cm
Normal Ride Height at Idling - Rear = 63cm Front = 64.5cm
Intermediate Ride Height at Idling - Rear = 67cm Front = 68.5cm
Maximum Ride Height at Idling - Rear = 71cm Front = 72.5cm
Minimum Ride Height at Idling - Rear = 55.5cm Front = 59cm
These measurements were taken with me NOT sat in the car at anytime, even to start the engine.
The tyre size is 185/65/R15 which is correct for the car and the sticker on the door pillar.
I did the lowest setting last and then when i set the position back to normal ride height the car didnt move at all after a minute or so, as soon as i sat in the car it sank (due to my weight) and then immediatly rose to the normal ride height setting (i imagine).
Think this as best described as possible!
Hi,
Unfortunately I've lost my measuring tape so until I find it or buy another one (possibly today) I can't take a quick measurement of the height of the guards as a comparison for you.
Just looking at those figures quickly however, suggests that someone has set the height by measuring the minimum and maximum guard heights, and setting the height half way inbetween, which due to different compressions of the upper and lower limit stops will result in a height roughly 20-30mm too high.
Did you perform the underbody ground clearance measurements shown in the picture I linked ? Although they are slightly awkward to do (you can only just reach the indicated place at the front lying on the ground) they are the official measurement points and figures, and will give you the definitive answer. My tyres are also 185/65 R15, and I used the bottom most entry in the table for tyre size as the closest match.
Regards,
Simon
Unfortunately I've lost my measuring tape so until I find it or buy another one (possibly today) I can't take a quick measurement of the height of the guards as a comparison for you.
Just looking at those figures quickly however, suggests that someone has set the height by measuring the minimum and maximum guard heights, and setting the height half way inbetween, which due to different compressions of the upper and lower limit stops will result in a height roughly 20-30mm too high.
Did you perform the underbody ground clearance measurements shown in the picture I linked ? Although they are slightly awkward to do (you can only just reach the indicated place at the front lying on the ground) they are the official measurement points and figures, and will give you the definitive answer. My tyres are also 185/65 R15, and I used the bottom most entry in the table for tyre size as the closest match.
Regards,
Simon