another veggie oil fuel thread

TheWorker · Post by **TheWorker** » 17 Sep 2005, 01:47

sorry to do this folks, but my boss wants to put it in the company c15 1.7d van . am i right in thinking only bosch pumps can cope or does lucas work as well?

sleepy0905 · Post by **sleepy0905** » 17 Sep 2005, 01:52

Well I run on veg oil and have done for about 2 years, I have a Lucas pump and havnt had any problems[^]

keljon · Post by **keljon** » 17 Sep 2005, 06:09

100% veggie oil or a mix?

sleepy0905 · Post by **sleepy0905** » 17 Sep 2005, 23:31

A mix of 70% veg oil 30% diesel although I have run on 80% when times are hard.[:D]

oilyspanner · Post by **oilyspanner** » 18 Sep 2005, 00:39

I got away with veg oil on a lucas pump for quite a time too.
Stewart

paranoid · Post by **paranoid** » 18 Sep 2005, 01:23

[:D]Topped up with 12 litres of Aldi's finest last wednesday and it's running soooooooo quietly it's beatifull[:D][:D]
Even Mrs F has noticed

fastandfurryous · Post by **fastandfurryous** » 18 Sep 2005, 02:12

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by TheWorker

my boss wants to put it in the company c15 1.7d van
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Is he going to do it legitimatly?
If you get caught as a privateer, then you'll probably loose your car. If you get caught as a business, you'll probably loose your business!
I've tried 100% reclaimed (used) veg oil in a 1.9D engine with a lucas pump, but it was a stationary engine, driving a mains alternator. Worked well.

sleepy0905 · Post by **sleepy0905** » 18 Sep 2005, 02:52

Running on it legaly is so easy I spoke to Customs and Excise last monday about running on veg oil and they informed me that if you use new veg oil then you pay the same duty as diesel as it is a direct fuel replacement but if you use waste veg oil then it is a substitute fuel and has a duty of 27.1p per litre and you need form EX103 which looks a nightmare to fill in but it isn`t that hard where it says nature of business all you need to put is Own Use and in the schedule part put your address in first column house number or name in the second and shed garage etc where ever you are doing the filtering in the third. Then you need a witness to sign the form [^]

stewart_c · Post by **stewart_c** » 18 Sep 2005, 15:46

Did H.M.R.C.say how much the duty was on virgin oil,as there has been various levels spoken about on the forum.

PicassoPigeon · Post by **PicassoPigeon** » 18 Sep 2005, 16:36

New or waste veg oil is charged at £0.471 per litre. The latest note i received yesterday from HMRC said:
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Following legal advice we have concluded that in order to qualify as a bio-diesel and therefore attract the lower rate of duty(£0.271), vegetable oil (whether used or unused) must be processed by some method which converts the vegetable oil into a fuel suitable for use in a diesel engine - the only method we are currently aware of is the transesterification process. Our decision is based on research into the reason for the introduction of the reduced duty rate for bio-diesel, which was to provide for the additional cost in producing the fuel against the cost of producing ordinary diesel.
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They also sent me a copy of the newest Notice 179E Bio-fuels and other substitutes. In here the law states that bio-diesel as a diesel quality liquid fuel that is produced from biomass or waste cooking oil.
the ester content of which is not less than 96.5% by weight; and
the sulphur content of which does not exceed 0.005% by weight, or is Nil.

sleepy0905 · Post by **sleepy0905** » 18 Sep 2005, 16:37

If you are using new oil then the duty is the same as diesel as it is classed as a direct fuel replacement and not a substitute.[:(]

Wookey · Post by **Wookey** » 19 Sep 2005, 04:19

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The latest note i received yesterday from HMRC said:
<hr noshade size="1">
'only biodiesel counts - veg oil counts as diesel'.
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Miserable buggers! So much for encouraging green fuels and keeping CO2 emmissions down. Maybe I'll make BD instead of using plain vegoil then.
To answer the original question. I can a C15 on vegoil for a year or so a couple of years back with a lucas pump. The was using heated SVO (new veg oil). No problems. I wouldn't use unheated SVO or waste oil qwith such a pump - there certainly have been plenty of failures of these pumps used on raw unheated veg oil. I'm not sure about the mixes - seems to have worked for people here.
I've got a spare pump for such a vehicle you can have for a very reasonable sum if you want to have a backup in hand.. (http://wookware.org/carbits.html)

PicassoPigeon · Post by **PicassoPigeon** » 19 Sep 2005, 11:35

The thing is the new 179E notice says:
"bio-diesel" means diesel quality liquid fuel-
(a) that is produced from biomass or waste cooking oil,
(b) the ester content of which is not less than 96.5% by weight, and
(c) the sulphur content of which does not exceed 0.005% by weight or is nil.
"diesel quality" means capable of being used for the same purposes as heavy oil.
"biomass" means vegetable and animal substances constituting the biodegradable fraction of products, wastes and residues from agriculture, forestry and related activities, or industrial and municipal waste.
So new veg oil still meets these statements of law, meaning lower rate of duty. But HMRC have decided to interpret the law differently.
To be placed on the lower duty rate(£0.271) you have to use the new or waste oil to make bio-diesel using chemicals.
If your just using new or waste veg oil straight in your car and mixing it with diesel or petrol this does not count and you should be paying the higher rate(£0.471). Many people have been placed on the lower rate even though they are just pouring new or used oil into their cars. HRMC have been asking people to pay back tax on this mix even though veg oil new or old meets the requirement to be bio-diesel.

davek-uk · Post by **davek-uk** » 19 Sep 2005, 18:34

HMRC are in a real mix over this issue. I have recently registered with them as a Biofuel producer. I was truthful and told them I would be adding SVO to my fuel tank. I was accepted and placed in the 27.1p/l revenue bracket. That was two weeks ago.
Although the current Notice 179E (on their web site) states that mixing fuels puts all parts up to the higest bracket, this is being revised. Their Business Brief 10/05 accepts that mixing biofuel and diesel is needed in most cars "This does not mean that the‘biofuel’must be able to run the engine exclusively. Most vehicles require a blend of biodiesel (approx 5 per cent) and ordinary diesel (approx 95 per cent) to meet manufacturers’specifications." This Business Brief, dated 07 April 05, represents their current trend which is expected to be expanded into the new Notice 179E.

davek-uk · Post by **davek-uk** » 19 Sep 2005, 18:49

I have heard of this confusion at the HMRC National Advice Centre. Is that who you rung 'sleepy'? Contact the Mineral Oil Reliefs Centre, Newcastle direct on 0191-2011812.