Xantia broke my spanner.

IanR · Post by **IanR** » 15 Sep 2005, 04:35

Xantia 1.8 16v petrol.
Take two at the cambelt change this afternoon, knew the crank pulley bolt was going to be the major obstacle... and this time broke the spanner. [:(!] OK so it wasn't a top-class brand, but even so that gives some idea of the force that was put on the thing. After trying various less-risky tactics I resorted to the "starter method" to find that the starter hadn't the torque to budge it anyway. A while after that, using manual force again, the spanner broke right across the ring.
Was thinking that the only resort might be to hire a beefy electric impact-driver (as I don't have air) Any use do you think? Or would one of those very costly Facom Dynapact wrenches do the job, assuming I can borrow one from somewhere? Or any other ideas?
I'd grind the head off, except I believe there is locking-compound on the threads so getting the remains out would then pose an even more difficult problem.
Fortunately gave the belt a close inspection and it seems in good condition, so have time to think about this before I do anything drastic that commits me to finishing the job. Will need to be solved eventually, though. (64,000m and no evidence of previous change in service history.)

Mosser · Post by **Mosser** » 15 Sep 2005, 05:23

When i did the cambelt on my Peugeot, i used a socket and a 2 foot breaker bar and all the force my foot could generate to shift the crank pulley bolt, i thought i was going to bend or snap the lock in the flywheel i had to use so much force !

fastandfurryous · Post by **fastandfurryous** » 15 Sep 2005, 05:26

powerbar and a decent quality socket is the order of the day. If you can buy a black impact socket these are even stronger, but a decent chrome-vanadium 1/2" drive socket and a good long powerbar will do it. It often helps if the engine is locked solidly (rather than just being in gear), so if possible, take the starter out and lock the ring gear with a bit of steel. Never failed me yet.

IanR · Post by **IanR** » 15 Sep 2005, 13:22

Someone suggested that it might not do the clutch any good to have the car in-gear and use massive (backwards) force. Can anyone confirm/refute this?
Getting the starter off is no mean task on these engines either, don't think it's possible without stripping the intake manifold and injection electronics off.

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 15 Sep 2005, 14:07

2 foot knuckle bar with an impact socket,long extention with knuckle bar end of extention sitting on an axel stand,and just lock the flywheel through the opening near the top of clutch housing,you may need to borrow a second pair of hands to hold flywheel locking device,this allways works for me exept on jap cars which i have known a 1" air hammer gun to fail to undo
regards malcolm

Post by **Peter.N.** » 15 Sep 2005, 14:43

I have had this problem with most XUD engines, you must use a socket with a long bar. A 3/4" drive is best but a 1/2" will do but you will need a bar about 4' long to get the neccessary leverage, I use the handle from my old Bradbury jack (circa 1965). You can lock the flywheel while pulling on the lever if you remove the cover plate at the bottom, much easier than taking the starter off. Use a flexy bar not a ratchet and slide the tube right up the handle, otherwise the flexy bar will bend.

dnsey · Post by **dnsey** » 15 Sep 2005, 14:44

Using the starter method, the idea is to arrange things so that the bar swings round with the bolt and suddenly hits the ground (or whatever). It's this impact that jolts the bolt free.
Disclaimer: potentially dangerous, and there's a risk of shearing the bolt, but it's always worked for me, and is the method used by many garages.

bxbodger · Post by **bxbodger** » 15 Sep 2005, 17:49

I have used cars to undo their own bolts for years, with no problems. Put your socket on the nut,wedge your bar against the floor or nearest bit of chassis, and give the starter a quick spin-not enough to start the engine however!!
This will loosen the nut for you, as long as you MAKE SURE that you know which way everything is going to turn!!
As dnsey says, its what they normally do in the trade, but not when the customer or h+s inspectors are looking- it saves them having to take a wheel off to get a rattle gun in.
Provided you are careful nothing will break!!!

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 15 Sep 2005, 19:03

I've just done my '97 Xantia cambelt and it didn't take a whole lot of force to get that pulley bolt off. I borrowed my Dad's 3/4" ratchet and used it straight on with a socket, i.e. no extension. My Dad tends to use his ratchet with a sledge hammer (improvised impact wrench) when things get difficult.

skeeheng · Post by **skeeheng** » 15 Sep 2005, 20:44

Like bxbodger I've used the car to undo those awkward bolts. For my recent Xantia cam-belt job I used a socket on a torque wrench and wedged it right under the chassis. The bolt has the normal right handed screw thread. Put it in first gear and give it a 3-sec burst on the starter. That should ease it enough for a hand job!

j_roc · Post by **j_roc** » 15 Sep 2005, 21:20

I use a impact gun (1/2 inch) - works first time every time, and even though the long bar (leverage) method works a treat, it saves me messing around with bars and the starter motor - Alex.

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 16 Sep 2005, 00:42

all the garages i have work at have never used the engine to undo these bolts,besides dont any of you respect your tools
regards malcolm

fastandfurryous · Post by **fastandfurryous** » 16 Sep 2005, 01:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by IanR

Someone suggested that it might not do the clutch any good to have the car in-gear and use massive (backwards) force. Can anyone confirm/refute this?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I will refute it. If the torque is too much for the clutch it will simply slip. There is no risk of any damage whatsoever. The good thing about this is that you're unlikely to damage the gearbox either, as the amount of torque is limited.
I have never tried the starter motor method, as I've never yet had a problem. My method on XUD engines is to lock the flywheel with the handy timing hole, using a 12.9 grade steel bolt (threads cut off) and a 3' powerbar. Never had a problem, but then I'm fairly big and can pull rather hard on a powerbar!

Mandrake · Post by **Mandrake** » 16 Sep 2005, 03:13

I don't suppose anyone knows the exact size of the socket needed to undo the pulley nut on the 2.0 litre 8 valve petrol ? Just in case the Haynes BOL doesn't state it or is wrong about it. [:D]
We have two cars to change the timing belt on shortly (mine and my Dad's, both the same type of engine) and we're definately not looking forward to the job... the main problem I can see apart from getting the nut loose is the very limited access for threading the belt on and inserting locating pegs etc, especially with air conditioning pipes in the way...
Regards,
Simon

fastandfurryous · Post by **fastandfurryous** » 16 Sep 2005, 04:16

Is this an XU derivative engine? if so then theoretically it should be a 22mm AF bolt.