Plips revisited - again

kafkaian · Post by **kafkaian** » 06 Sep 2005, 16:29

Sorry to revisit this again guys and gals but these plippling plips.
Can someone explain the following: I have had a Xantia which came with 2 sets of the original plips and keys from almost new. At first both plips worked well until one day, one of them didn't (Plip A). After efforts which included changing the batteries, cleaning the circuit board and following the various programming instructions on here, nowt worked until yesterday when I decided (after reading this forum) to literally program the non-working plip for at least a minute - instead of the 20 seconds I tried before.
It worked! But strangely the other plip (Plip B - the one that always worked) then didn't. So I reprogrammed Plip B. It Worked, then Plip A didn't. I reprogrammed Plip A. It worked, then Plip B didn't and so on.
Can someone please tell me what's going on to render either plip useless on re-programming the other?
I've searched and not found this but if you have a link, that'll do.
Many thanks in anticipation
Ian

Mandrake · Post by **Mandrake** » 06 Sep 2005, 16:46

Although I havn't managed to successfully reprogram one yet, my understanding is this:
Each plip is only a transmitter, and has a unique code number, so it is the receiver in the car that learns the code of the transmitter. Your two original plips would have had different code numbers.
When you program one plip at a time it learns the code for that plip and forgets any others - important for example if your plip was stolen and you got a replacement, you wouldn't want the stolen one being able to open your car forever after.
Supposedly if you follow the programming procedure for both plips *simultaneously* (not sure if that means holding both buttons down together or alternating between them quickly) it will learn both plips codes as being acceptable - my guess is that when the receiver is in the programming mode, if it receives two codes repeated one after another it decides both are acceptable, but if you only program one, the other one gets erased.
I'm still trying to program my Dad's car to respond to my plip so I can confirm that it is possible (before getting a S/H plip for his car to replace the one missing) and so far I've been unsuccessful.
Do you have a single or two button plip ? Can you describe the procedure that worked EXACTLY ? As I've tried all kinds of things without success.
All the descrptions on here say to hold the button down for long periods of time, but on my plip the light will only flash on for a second then go off no matter how long I hold it down... and lots of repeated pressing of the button doesn't seem to do the trick either [}:)]
Regards,
Simon

kafkaian · Post by **kafkaian** » 06 Sep 2005, 16:59

I have a two button version
This what I did:
1) I put the one key in the igntion and turned the system on (I went past stage 1 onto stage 2 before turning the engine over)
2) I then placed the plip for programming very close to the sensor in the roof panel and pressed the button nearest the key continuously for at least 2 minutes. Apart from the initial led blink, the light did not come on after that during the programming stage.
3) I took the key out of the ignition and tried the re-programmed plip which then worked.
Thanks for your advice on the dual plip programming Simon. I don't know why two original plips should be different though, unless that was the problem with failure in that the id changed according to a malfunction.
All the best
Ian

Mandrake · Post by **Mandrake** » 06 Sep 2005, 17:14

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by kafkaian

I have a two button version
This what I did:
1) I put the one key in the igntion and turned the system on (I went past stage 1 onto stage 2 before turning the engine over)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I'm just trying to visualize how many steps there are in the ignition key - by stage 2 do you mean the normal full on position the key is in during driving ?
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
2) I then placed the plip for programming very close to the sensor in the roof panel and pressed the button nearest the key continuously for at least 2 minutes. Apart from the initial led blink, the light did not come on after that during the programming stage.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Aha! You've just given me an idea.
It can't be the amount of time that you hold the button down on the plip that makes it work - because I've already confirmed on mine with an oscilloscope that the LED really does indicate how long it transmits for - when the red LED goes out, it isn't transmitting anymore.
That means that after the initial burst is sent from the transmitter while the key is on, it is the delay before TURNING THE KEY OFF that must be the important thing.
EG:
1) Turn on key.
2) Press and release transmitter button.
3) Wait 2 minutes.
4) Turn off key and test the transmitter.
Could you give that a try to confirm if I'm right ?
Assuming that works, try it again, but this time after pressing the first transmitter in step 2, then press the button on the OTHER transmiter (without turning the key inbetween obviously) and then wait the 2 minutes and turn the key off. If my hunch is right, this should program both units for you.
Failing that, try pressing each transmitter alternately a few times for step 2...
If you don't have a 3rd key available for the ignition just undo the screw in the fob to remove the circuit board from the key unit - you can operate it like this with no cover...
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
3) I took the key out of the ignition and tried the re-programmed plip which then worked.
Thanks for your advice on the dual plip programming Simon. I don't know why two original plips should be different though, unless that was the problem with failure in that the id changed according to a malfunction.
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I think you'll find that all the IR plips have unique codes as they come off the factory line - with no way of knowing which plips might be going to which cars, hence it seems more likely that there is a way to program more than one plip to work on the same car...
Regards,
Simon

kafkaian · Post by **kafkaian** » 06 Sep 2005, 17:31

Stage 2 - Correct, that is what I meant.
I will give your procedure a go tonight Simon and report back later. My wife has the car today and I've got the run-a-round.
Yes I can see where you are coming from - good to see someone applying intelligence to the process
All the best
Ian

Post by **RichardW** » 06 Sep 2005, 17:45

When I did mine (97 TD, two button plip) I switched on to the first (battery light on only) position, with the door closed (that may be important!) then held the plip near the recevier, and pressed each of the buttons 4 or 5 times. Then switched off - I didn't leave it switched on for a long time. Worked OK after that. There was no beep or anything from the car to say that it had accepted the plip code. I only have 1 plip, so haven't tried coding 2.

Mandrake · Post by **Mandrake** » 06 Sep 2005, 18:14

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by RichardW

When I did mine (97 TD, two button plip) I switched on to the first (battery light on only) position, with the door closed (that may be important!) then held the plip near the recevier, and pressed each of the buttons 4 or 5 times. Then switched off - I didn't leave it switched on for a long time. Worked OK after that. There was no beep or anything from the car to say that it had accepted the plip code. I only have 1 plip, so haven't tried coding 2.
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Hmm... I've tried that on Dad's car already, no go. I'm beginning to wonder if the receiver unit on his car is faulty, as my plip works fine on my car...and as I only have one plip I can't test reprogramming it on my car as it already responds...
Does anyone know where the receiver board is located ? Is it just the sensor in the ceiling and the main unit elsewhere or is the whole thing in the ceiling with the sensor ?
Regards,
Simon

JohnT · Post by **JohnT** » 06 Sep 2005, 18:17

This is the correct way to do it..... My experiance with plips is the earlier infrared plips. You can programme two plips in at the same time as i have done it. If u have 2 plips to programme you need to press them both at the same time at the receiver unit on the ceiling. Also the ignition needs to be on at the same time ,so if you have 2 plips u need to remove the blade (key part) from one of the plips to turn the ignition on. The blade is removed by removing the rivet thing in the plip. Its just pushed together.These are pence at a citroen dealer to replace.(Or get another key cut)
With ignition on and both plips pressed against the receiver keep pressing the plips for about half a minute, remove the key and they should then work. You may need several goes at it but it worked for me.

kafkaian · Post by **kafkaian** » 07 Sep 2005, 00:23

Success with two plips!!!
Okay this is how it went:
1) Found third key and turned a single stage as RichardW
2) Tried pressing button one (nearest the key) on both plips simultaneously working very close to the ceiling sensor - didn't work.
3) Then did the same with Plip A only quickly followed by Plip B only.
4) Took the spare ignition key out and tried both plips in turn. Worked!!!
Thanks guys

Mandrake · Post by **Mandrake** » 07 Sep 2005, 06:06

Ok,
I removed the IR receiver from my car and plugged it into the ceiling in Dad's car - presto, my plip now operates his car, tried his receiver in my car - no go, tried programming it with his receiver in my car, still no go.
So either his receiver is faulty, or it wont program. Either way it is useless as he never received the transmitter fob with the car, so any fob that he gets will need programming...
I'll check for dry joints etc on the receiver next - my transmitter fob was full of them, and didn't work properly until I did some resoldering on it...
Regards,
Simon

kafkaian · Post by **kafkaian** » 07 Sep 2005, 06:11

Simon,
If the receiver has gone, then perhaps a scrap yard might have one if you can;t fix it. Looking at the resale value of these cars, there must be plenty going for scrap.
Sad really.

Mandrake · Post by **Mandrake** » 07 Sep 2005, 07:04

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by kafkaian

Simon,
If the receiver has gone, then perhaps a scrap yard might have one if you can;t fix it. Looking at the resale value of these cars, there must be plenty going for scrap.
Sad really.
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Not over here unfortunately, Citroen's are very rare here, and seldom ever seen at scrap yards. It's highly unlikely I could find one that way...
Regards,
Simon

beezer · Post by **beezer** » 07 Sep 2005, 22:56

Here is a link that might be of use:
Bttp://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:7VBViWJFD-MJ:www.advanced-diagnostics.com.au/keyfob. ... ault&hl=en
You will have to copy and paste the whole link into your browser and replace the first letter (B) with an 'h' as for some reason the link will not post on here correctly. Don't try clicking it as it will not work!
I have yet to try these methods but they appear to be genuine.

Mandrake · Post by **Mandrake** » 08 Sep 2005, 02:08

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by beezer

Here is a link that might be of use:
Bttp://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:7VBViWJFD-MJ:www.advanced-diagnostics.com.au/keyfob. ... ault&hl=en
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Sorry, but your link doesn't seem to work. [:(]
Regards,
Simon

beezer · Post by **beezer** » 08 Sep 2005, 03:05

Sorry to make it confusing but if I just pasted the link as it should be on here it does all kind of weird things. If you copy the link I gave (in full - not just the underlined part, that is the forum code getting confused) and paste it into your browser then replace the first letter which is a capital B - with a small h (Bttp:// to http://) then press enter you should get it. I have tried it several times in IE and Firefox and it works every time.