Traction/DS/H van 1911cc engine
Moderator: RichardW
Traction/DS/H van 1911cc engine
Does anyone know how long this engine was used by Citroen? I believe the DS23 engine is an enlarged version of this. Is that correct? Did they continue into the CX as well?
Also, did the 2.5lt CX engines petrol or diesel have any relation to these? I wondered if the fact they were all big 4 cylinder engines meant they shared common blocks etc. If they are not related would they swap relatively easily?
Any info would be welcome.
Thanks.
Vidfletch[?]
Also, did the 2.5lt CX engines petrol or diesel have any relation to these? I wondered if the fact they were all big 4 cylinder engines meant they shared common blocks etc. If they are not related would they swap relatively easily?
Any info would be welcome.
Thanks.
Vidfletch[?]
I do in fact believe the early 2000-2200-2400 CX engines was an even further development of the good ole DS23 engine. Differences are too many for even a modified swap - only the cylinder head is to my knowledge useable on the earlier engine types.
They do have one big difference however : these early CX engine types runs the opposite way round on the crank [8] - meaning it runs the same way round as the wheels when driving forward [8)]
(as do all modern FW cars I know off these days)
The latest 2500/2.5 L (M25 series) CX engines were still with the mid-block located cam-axle and short pushrods. Even the latest CX turbo2 models.
The later ('80 & '85) standard powered models had the Europe engine (or Renault engine) of all-alloy construction (2.0L and later the 2.2L) which was a completely different design.
They do have one big difference however : these early CX engine types runs the opposite way round on the crank [8] - meaning it runs the same way round as the wheels when driving forward [8)]
(as do all modern FW cars I know off these days)
The latest 2500/2.5 L (M25 series) CX engines were still with the mid-block located cam-axle and short pushrods. Even the latest CX turbo2 models.
The later ('80 & '85) standard powered models had the Europe engine (or Renault engine) of all-alloy construction (2.0L and later the 2.2L) which was a completely different design.
-
- Posts: 41
- Joined: 05 Feb 2005, 01:05
- Location: United Kingdom
- My Cars:
Hi Malcolm!
I did get your email last night. I was away at my friends house after Kelso. Lots of emails to get through! Lol!!!
I got a lead on one kidney box while there and have to contact someone. They also told me about a company called PD Gough in Nottingham who made a complete system for someone. I had planned to get round a lot more people and ask but the horrendous weather and kids got in the way!
What did you make of the 2CV World Meeting? It was my third and by far the worst and I don't mean because of the weather. Cars were amazing as always. Toilets, intermittently working showers, entrance queue (I pre-paid) and posted missing (unless near entrance or big tent) 2CVGB crew were pretty awful. The flea market and traders were quite good and the entertainment not bad.
I left on Saturday as my parents came to visit and the temptation to to jump in a warm Picasso and plough through the mud to home was too much. I was certainly not the only one. Where I was ended up like the Marie Celeste! A lot of Dutch and French round me disappeared.
Sweden beckons in 2007 and I hope to possibly add an H van to the fleet to go in 2 vehicles and NO tent! LOL!!! I want to get one needing work and maybe slightly modernise the running gear! Hence the questions. 2.5 Turbodiesel?!?!? LOL!!! Maybe too much!
Thanks
Vidfletch[?]
I did get your email last night. I was away at my friends house after Kelso. Lots of emails to get through! Lol!!!
I got a lead on one kidney box while there and have to contact someone. They also told me about a company called PD Gough in Nottingham who made a complete system for someone. I had planned to get round a lot more people and ask but the horrendous weather and kids got in the way!
What did you make of the 2CV World Meeting? It was my third and by far the worst and I don't mean because of the weather. Cars were amazing as always. Toilets, intermittently working showers, entrance queue (I pre-paid) and posted missing (unless near entrance or big tent) 2CVGB crew were pretty awful. The flea market and traders were quite good and the entertainment not bad.
I left on Saturday as my parents came to visit and the temptation to to jump in a warm Picasso and plough through the mud to home was too much. I was certainly not the only one. Where I was ended up like the Marie Celeste! A lot of Dutch and French round me disappeared.
Sweden beckons in 2007 and I hope to possibly add an H van to the fleet to go in 2 vehicles and NO tent! LOL!!! I want to get one needing work and maybe slightly modernise the running gear! Hence the questions. 2.5 Turbodiesel?!?!? LOL!!! Maybe too much!
Thanks
Vidfletch[?]
-
- Posts: 562
- Joined: 28 May 2004, 01:02
- Location:
- My Cars:
- x 1
Yes Matt,
Drums all round! Fine if its slow! My first two 2cv's had drums. Fine around town but come to the end of a motorway or dual carriageway when tanking along and I just threw the anchor out the back! LOL!!!
I am sure discs could be persuaded to go on somehow! I must check out all the old Haynes manuals etc, and see what conclusions I come up with.
Vidfletch[?]
Drums all round! Fine if its slow! My first two 2cv's had drums. Fine around town but come to the end of a motorway or dual carriageway when tanking along and I just threw the anchor out the back! LOL!!!
I am sure discs could be persuaded to go on somehow! I must check out all the old Haynes manuals etc, and see what conclusions I come up with.
Vidfletch[?]
The 1911cc engine was fitted to the TA and then tho the DS before the new short-stroke, five crankshaft support bearings version was introduced in 1969, as Citroennut recalls.
The only modification of relevance to the 1911cc unit when introduced in the DS was a new cilinder head and bigger compression ratio (increased 2 times, if not mistaken, until the end of it's production life).
Not bad for an "old-fashoned" engine, considering it's long career of 35 years or so...
The only modification of relevance to the 1911cc unit when introduced in the DS was a new cilinder head and bigger compression ratio (increased 2 times, if not mistaken, until the end of it's production life).
Not bad for an "old-fashoned" engine, considering it's long career of 35 years or so...
- uhn113x
- Posts: 1161
- Joined: 06 Jan 2004, 22:06
- Location: Near Leeds, United Kingdom
- My Cars: 1981 Dyane - on road all year round.
1982 GSA Pallas - on road April - September.
1997 ZX 1.9D Dimension. - x 1
VF
Drums vs discs - it is the actual size of the friction material that matters. A 2CV has quite small front drums.
The larger drums on a Dyane actually stop better than the later disc ones. The problem with drums is the fact they can fade during heavy braking, as there is less cooling.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by vidfletch</i>
Yes Matt,
Drums all round! Fine if its slow! My first two 2cv's had drums. Fine around town but come to the end of a motorway or dual carriageway when tanking along and I just threw the anchor out the back! LOL!!!
I am sure discs could be persuaded to go on somehow! I must check out all the old Haynes manuals etc, and see what conclusions I come up with.
Vidfletch[?]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Drums vs discs - it is the actual size of the friction material that matters. A 2CV has quite small front drums.
The larger drums on a Dyane actually stop better than the later disc ones. The problem with drums is the fact they can fade during heavy braking, as there is less cooling.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by vidfletch</i>
Yes Matt,
Drums all round! Fine if its slow! My first two 2cv's had drums. Fine around town but come to the end of a motorway or dual carriageway when tanking along and I just threw the anchor out the back! LOL!!!
I am sure discs could be persuaded to go on somehow! I must check out all the old Haynes manuals etc, and see what conclusions I come up with.
Vidfletch[?]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
- uhn113x
- Posts: 1161
- Joined: 06 Jan 2004, 22:06
- Location: Near Leeds, United Kingdom
- My Cars: 1981 Dyane - on road all year round.
1982 GSA Pallas - on road April - September.
1997 ZX 1.9D Dimension. - x 1
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by vidfletch</i>
What did you make of the 2CV World Meeting? It was my third and by far the worst and I don't mean because of the weather. Cars were amazing as always. Toilets, intermittently working showers, entrance queue (I pre-paid) and posted missing (unless near entrance or big tent) 2CVGB crew were pretty awful.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Unfortunately, we were let down by the toilet people - Mr Pugh (Poo?) [}:)]
We were promised new portaloos, and they were certainly not - one of our crew spent 2 days before the meeting cleaning them manually.
One vehicle broke down when they were emptying them, and others did not turn up at all.
I believe that we are considering litigation about this.
As for the entrance queue, what else could we have done? Even though it was clearly stated that it opened at 12:00 Tuesday, people were still filling the town hours before, so we had to open a 'holding field' at 10:00.
I don't understand what you mean about 'posted missing' [?]
We would welcome any constructive criticism about the 'awful crew'
Bearing in mind that this took 6 years of planning, and more than 200 of us spent up to a week before the event, and a few days after, for many hours in a day sacrificing our holidays, and entirely for free!
What did you make of the 2CV World Meeting? It was my third and by far the worst and I don't mean because of the weather. Cars were amazing as always. Toilets, intermittently working showers, entrance queue (I pre-paid) and posted missing (unless near entrance or big tent) 2CVGB crew were pretty awful.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Unfortunately, we were let down by the toilet people - Mr Pugh (Poo?) [}:)]
We were promised new portaloos, and they were certainly not - one of our crew spent 2 days before the meeting cleaning them manually.
One vehicle broke down when they were emptying them, and others did not turn up at all.
I believe that we are considering litigation about this.
As for the entrance queue, what else could we have done? Even though it was clearly stated that it opened at 12:00 Tuesday, people were still filling the town hours before, so we had to open a 'holding field' at 10:00.
I don't understand what you mean about 'posted missing' [?]
We would welcome any constructive criticism about the 'awful crew'
Bearing in mind that this took 6 years of planning, and more than 200 of us spent up to a week before the event, and a few days after, for many hours in a day sacrificing our holidays, and entirely for free!
Hi UHN. I was also part of the crew and this post is by far the most negative I've seen anywhere! I understand the frustrations but the loo problem was pretty much unsortable thanks to the contractors and yes, litigation is planned.
The entrance queue is always going to be a nightmare. We actually opened the gate at 9:30 due to Police pressure as by this time, we'd filled the town! Pre-paids did not all get preferential treatment as we had far more turn up very early than the planners had predicted. This was a genuine error but it was too late by then!
Sorry to hear that a bad time was had. Personally I really enjoyed it on the few occasions I wasn't extremely busy!
The entrance queue is always going to be a nightmare. We actually opened the gate at 9:30 due to Police pressure as by this time, we'd filled the town! Pre-paids did not all get preferential treatment as we had far more turn up very early than the planners had predicted. This was a genuine error but it was too late by then!
Sorry to hear that a bad time was had. Personally I really enjoyed it on the few occasions I wasn't extremely busy!
Mike,
The weather certainly contributed a lot! You can never tell but rain in Scotland is quite common! I live there! It certainly wasn't meant to be so bad according to weather reports beforehand. However, we did think as we came down the slope on the metal road on Tuesday, that it better not rain too much as that will be a problem. It turned out to be a problem! LOL!!! Did it not cross anyones mind?
The length of time in the queue was inexcusable. I got there after 3.00pm to hopefully avoid queues! So that's 5 hours after the first of those who arrived. One traffic warden in the square. All this talk of the police not being happy? I never saw a single police car or policeman. If this was true then they have had 4 YEARS to consult with them! I had prepaid so there was no reason why myself and others could not be waved through quickly on displaying the card. I did think at the time why did I bother prepaying. I saved about £8! Woo! We only moved when they started putting the cars in to 4 lanes at one point. Some idiot with a crew t-shirt asked us all to bunch right up to the rear bumper of the car in front. We did so and THEN he asked us to move over! We asked him to go away!
The toilets as you know were a major problem. We were at the west end of the camp site near washpoint 4. These 4 toilets were NOT cleaned until Thursday! One of them was "Out of Order" from Tuesday but was broken into and used anyway. It was never replaced. I eventually asked at the info office on Friday along with a Dutch woman. We were told about the contractual difficulties but the guy really did not care. We had four children aged 5 and under with us and this
Dutch woman had small children also. I can cope with stinking bogs but not trying to keep my children from getting covered in sh*t! So they had contractual difficulties. Whose fault is that? The organisers. I don't know if you noticed but the toilets all came from different Hire companies. It would seem the firm didn't have
enough toilets. Hence they "sub-hired" them from elsewhere and did not have the ability to clean them. Totally hopeless! You are not telling me this could not have been checked. There wasn't enough as it was! Why did I have to go all the way to info to ask about the toilets? Could they not make an announcement or put signs up? If the weather had been warm there would have been a serious health risk.
The showers were not exactly reliable either. It was pot luck when you went down if they worked or worked properly. On Thursday when it REALLY rained I went along in the morning. I needed the heat! I was confronted with a queue. No problem I thought, I'll just wait. It then became apparent that they were not working. Four jokers (crew) were trying to work out why. They thought it was hilarious! I didn't and went back to the tent. My wife went later and only half in each block was working as they couldn't get the water pressure
high enough. Ironic! She was also told there was a problem with us taking too much water from Kelso! If that was true then it gives an idea of the scale of the World Meeting. My wife had one warm shower all the time she was there. To be fair mine were all warm. Half way up a mountain alp in Switzerland 1991 they worked all the time. Could they not also have stuck some benches inside the shower tent? Those ropes were crap. Everyone was hopping about trying to keep their clothes from getting wet! LOL!!! One day I was in the shower and a french guy put his clothes on the rope next to mine. BOING!!! went the rope and all my clothes fell on the floor and got soaked. Much waving of arms and franglais apologies from the man! The floors
were never cleaned either. I am not a wimp, I washed in a glacial stream in Switzerland! We need to be dry and clean!
I also missed a lot of the daytime activities talking to others and running around after children. Time flew by! At Orleans in 1989 they had a 2CV with a loudspeaker going round reminding everyone what was happening. There was no noticeboard as such but there was a poster about someone in Kelso whose dog or cat had gone missing! Small point but great idea!
We left on Saturday as my parents were coming down to visit for the day. The temptation of bunging everything back in the car was too much. Once packed a small 75 mile journey beckoned. We were off! On Saturday it was like rats deserting a sinking ship. Loads of people left. My friends wife had also come down on Saturday. Her car was in Kelso. Allan took a lot of our stuff out in his car to hers. He was in and out three times on returning the third time he was stopped at the gate to show his blue wristband despite having his castle sticker. He thought it was hilarious as he had been out three
times in half an hour already and not even stopped. His car was also totally covered in mud! I wonder where she thought he had been!
The flea market was great, the traders were not bad, the food was edible, the daily car displays superb and the night time entertainment was pretty good. Entertainment is a hard one to pull off. Its difficult to please everyone. I noticed a lot more of the older rarer cars as well. They must be getting restored.
I did get a FREE steering wheel from our Dutch neighbours though! What a guy! Allans car battery also went flat. My dutch neighbour Theo whipped out his 2CV battery and we bunged it in the Picasso and away it went! He will never live it down! I told him to buy a 2CV etc!!!! I am also onto a few leads for an exhaust box for my car! Hopefully it will be there in Sweden 2007!
I know it was a lot of peoples first world meeting and they are always good but they can be SO much better. I felt guilty for dragging my wife, kids and friends to it after regaling them with tales of France and Switzerland. All in all it was a huge disappointment after the Orleans 89 and Switzerland 91 ones. I really got the feeling once everyone had paid and got through the gate they were on their own.I know that the weather played a huge part in spoiling the meeting but 2CVGB organisers did nothing to rise to the occasion.
I am not underestimating the task in organising and looking after what is essentially a small town for a week. Hats off to those who volunteered. Things were wrong though. Basic things. I am not the only one who felt this way. I spoke to several Sweden 2007 organisers who brought up similar points and asked our party what we thought. They were particularly concerned about the sanitation and cleanliness. Its not cool to have bogs like Glastonbury as some have mentioned elsewhere. It doesn't matter if previous meetings have had worse facilities or problems. Thats all the more reason for them to be improved.
At the end of the day it was tremendous to see all the cars and people. As the German 2009 bid spokesman pointed out, the 2CV brings lots of people of different social, economic and geographical groups and brings them together as one. Not many things can do that in this day and age.
Vidfletch
The weather certainly contributed a lot! You can never tell but rain in Scotland is quite common! I live there! It certainly wasn't meant to be so bad according to weather reports beforehand. However, we did think as we came down the slope on the metal road on Tuesday, that it better not rain too much as that will be a problem. It turned out to be a problem! LOL!!! Did it not cross anyones mind?
The length of time in the queue was inexcusable. I got there after 3.00pm to hopefully avoid queues! So that's 5 hours after the first of those who arrived. One traffic warden in the square. All this talk of the police not being happy? I never saw a single police car or policeman. If this was true then they have had 4 YEARS to consult with them! I had prepaid so there was no reason why myself and others could not be waved through quickly on displaying the card. I did think at the time why did I bother prepaying. I saved about £8! Woo! We only moved when they started putting the cars in to 4 lanes at one point. Some idiot with a crew t-shirt asked us all to bunch right up to the rear bumper of the car in front. We did so and THEN he asked us to move over! We asked him to go away!
The toilets as you know were a major problem. We were at the west end of the camp site near washpoint 4. These 4 toilets were NOT cleaned until Thursday! One of them was "Out of Order" from Tuesday but was broken into and used anyway. It was never replaced. I eventually asked at the info office on Friday along with a Dutch woman. We were told about the contractual difficulties but the guy really did not care. We had four children aged 5 and under with us and this
Dutch woman had small children also. I can cope with stinking bogs but not trying to keep my children from getting covered in sh*t! So they had contractual difficulties. Whose fault is that? The organisers. I don't know if you noticed but the toilets all came from different Hire companies. It would seem the firm didn't have
enough toilets. Hence they "sub-hired" them from elsewhere and did not have the ability to clean them. Totally hopeless! You are not telling me this could not have been checked. There wasn't enough as it was! Why did I have to go all the way to info to ask about the toilets? Could they not make an announcement or put signs up? If the weather had been warm there would have been a serious health risk.
The showers were not exactly reliable either. It was pot luck when you went down if they worked or worked properly. On Thursday when it REALLY rained I went along in the morning. I needed the heat! I was confronted with a queue. No problem I thought, I'll just wait. It then became apparent that they were not working. Four jokers (crew) were trying to work out why. They thought it was hilarious! I didn't and went back to the tent. My wife went later and only half in each block was working as they couldn't get the water pressure
high enough. Ironic! She was also told there was a problem with us taking too much water from Kelso! If that was true then it gives an idea of the scale of the World Meeting. My wife had one warm shower all the time she was there. To be fair mine were all warm. Half way up a mountain alp in Switzerland 1991 they worked all the time. Could they not also have stuck some benches inside the shower tent? Those ropes were crap. Everyone was hopping about trying to keep their clothes from getting wet! LOL!!! One day I was in the shower and a french guy put his clothes on the rope next to mine. BOING!!! went the rope and all my clothes fell on the floor and got soaked. Much waving of arms and franglais apologies from the man! The floors
were never cleaned either. I am not a wimp, I washed in a glacial stream in Switzerland! We need to be dry and clean!
I also missed a lot of the daytime activities talking to others and running around after children. Time flew by! At Orleans in 1989 they had a 2CV with a loudspeaker going round reminding everyone what was happening. There was no noticeboard as such but there was a poster about someone in Kelso whose dog or cat had gone missing! Small point but great idea!
We left on Saturday as my parents were coming down to visit for the day. The temptation of bunging everything back in the car was too much. Once packed a small 75 mile journey beckoned. We were off! On Saturday it was like rats deserting a sinking ship. Loads of people left. My friends wife had also come down on Saturday. Her car was in Kelso. Allan took a lot of our stuff out in his car to hers. He was in and out three times on returning the third time he was stopped at the gate to show his blue wristband despite having his castle sticker. He thought it was hilarious as he had been out three
times in half an hour already and not even stopped. His car was also totally covered in mud! I wonder where she thought he had been!
The flea market was great, the traders were not bad, the food was edible, the daily car displays superb and the night time entertainment was pretty good. Entertainment is a hard one to pull off. Its difficult to please everyone. I noticed a lot more of the older rarer cars as well. They must be getting restored.
I did get a FREE steering wheel from our Dutch neighbours though! What a guy! Allans car battery also went flat. My dutch neighbour Theo whipped out his 2CV battery and we bunged it in the Picasso and away it went! He will never live it down! I told him to buy a 2CV etc!!!! I am also onto a few leads for an exhaust box for my car! Hopefully it will be there in Sweden 2007!
I know it was a lot of peoples first world meeting and they are always good but they can be SO much better. I felt guilty for dragging my wife, kids and friends to it after regaling them with tales of France and Switzerland. All in all it was a huge disappointment after the Orleans 89 and Switzerland 91 ones. I really got the feeling once everyone had paid and got through the gate they were on their own.I know that the weather played a huge part in spoiling the meeting but 2CVGB organisers did nothing to rise to the occasion.
I am not underestimating the task in organising and looking after what is essentially a small town for a week. Hats off to those who volunteered. Things were wrong though. Basic things. I am not the only one who felt this way. I spoke to several Sweden 2007 organisers who brought up similar points and asked our party what we thought. They were particularly concerned about the sanitation and cleanliness. Its not cool to have bogs like Glastonbury as some have mentioned elsewhere. It doesn't matter if previous meetings have had worse facilities or problems. Thats all the more reason for them to be improved.
At the end of the day it was tremendous to see all the cars and people. As the German 2009 bid spokesman pointed out, the 2CV brings lots of people of different social, economic and geographical groups and brings them together as one. Not many things can do that in this day and age.
Vidfletch