XM 2.1 HEAD GASKET??

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

Post Reply
Matthew
Posts: 26
Joined: 04 Jan 2005, 02:52
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars:

XM 2.1 HEAD GASKET??

Post by Matthew »

hello, I ve bought a 95 xm 2.1 td with susopected hg problems.
How can i make sure that,s really the problem. The car starts and run ok, is far stronger than my other 1990 xm 2.1 with reconditioned engine in it. I cant see bubles in expansion tank however the fluid level goes up as reved( somebody told me it was normal due to watrer pump action). The other problem is that the engine revs up slightly when changing gear or at least rpms dont drop maybe this can be related to hg? The previous owner told me that with this problems in mind the compression test was carried out and everything was ok. No white smoke or smoke whatsoever.
Thanks matthew[?][?]
Chrispy
Posts: 177
Joined: 04 May 2005, 15:17
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars:

Post by Chrispy »

Leakdown test would be next to see if the HG is leaking between cylinders and can be a bit more precise than a compo test. Otherwise I think you can have your coolant analysed for exhaust gases but that's a bit extreme! To be honest, fluid level rising when you rev it is normal and has done it on most car's I've had. Other symptoms of a duff HG are a lumpy idle (due to the loss of compo), unexplained coolant loss, white smoke from the exhaust, overheating/ odd temperature behaviour etc. To be honest if your car behaves ok otherwise I'd be paying my attention elsewhere. I take it the car's an auto?
The engine increasing in RPM's when it changes gear could be a duff torque convertor of auto box ECU. If it's a manual, then are you sure it's not just the way you change gear? Either that or a clutch with a very high bite point (worn or badly adjusted) and it's disengaging the flywheel more soon than you're used to?
Peter.N.
Moderating Team
Posts: 11563
Joined: 02 Apr 2005, 16:11
Location: Charmouth,Dorset
My Cars: Currently:

C5 X7 VTR + Satnav Hdi estate Silver
C5 X7 VTR + Hdi Estate 2008 Red

In the past: 3, CX td Safaris and about 7, XM td estates. Lovely cars.
x 1199

Post by Peter.N. »

Head gaskets are prone to failure on these engines, I know, I have just fitted one on my XM! They usually last about 150k miles and the leakage gets progressively worse. Look for signs of coolant being blown out of the header tank overflow. A quick test is to drive it a short distance from cold then stop and remove the filler cap, if there is a lot of pressure or it blows water out its leaking. You will allways get some build up of pressure due to the water expanding with heat, but you shouldn't get an 'explosion' of water. BE VERY CAREFUL when you are doing this or you could have boiling water in your face, hold a rag in your hand as you undo it and stand well back also remove it SLOWLY.
Matthew
Posts: 26
Joined: 04 Jan 2005, 02:52
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars:

Post by Matthew »

the car is manual. It revs up as if it had smth to do with ecu (epic pump) I asked about water pushing up through exp. tank when reved because my other xm 2.1 doesn,t do that at all.
Matthew
Posts: 26
Joined: 04 Jan 2005, 02:52
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars:

Post by Matthew »

Thank you for fast replies. I took it for a ride and opened the expansion cap the coolant started escaping. It wasn,t really an explosion though. What do you think.
Lets say I decided to change HG before engine overheats (which it never done) would that save me skimming and reseting etc. What if I used head from the older car 1990(lucas roto) in 1995 (epic)?
Once again Thank You.
Peter.N.
Moderating Team
Posts: 11563
Joined: 02 Apr 2005, 16:11
Location: Charmouth,Dorset
My Cars: Currently:

C5 X7 VTR + Satnav Hdi estate Silver
C5 X7 VTR + Hdi Estate 2008 Red

In the past: 3, CX td Safaris and about 7, XM td estates. Lovely cars.
x 1199

Post by Peter.N. »

How full was your header tank? if it is full to the brim it will blow some water out but if it is only up to the normal level it shouldn't Failure of the head gasket in itself will not usually cause the engine to overheat, its the loss of water that causes the overheating, so unless you are loosing a lot of water. I wouldn't worry about it until you are. I think all the 2.1 heads are the same but dont quote me on it, they dont usually give trouble as the cirulation pattern is a great improvment over the 1.9 and also, because the thermostat is in the return side of the cooling system, you dont get airlocks which is what normally causes the head to crack.
Matthew
Posts: 26
Joined: 04 Jan 2005, 02:52
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars:

Post by Matthew »

Thank you peter.
Do you mean I can continue to use this car as long as i keep an eye on coolant level?
Peter.N.
Moderating Team
Posts: 11563
Joined: 02 Apr 2005, 16:11
Location: Charmouth,Dorset
My Cars: Currently:

C5 X7 VTR + Satnav Hdi estate Silver
C5 X7 VTR + Hdi Estate 2008 Red

In the past: 3, CX td Safaris and about 7, XM td estates. Lovely cars.
x 1199

Post by Peter.N. »

Yes.
Matthew
Posts: 26
Joined: 04 Jan 2005, 02:52
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars:

Post by Matthew »

Now I am sure is a head gasket. I have been using the car refilling 2 litres of water every other day(horror) but otherwise the machine was veery strong. Today I spoted huge emulsification. so defo hg job. The question - How much should it cost? How much for the parts and how much for the labour. What needs to be done at the same time.
Matthew
NiSk
Posts: 1422
Joined: 24 Jan 2002, 20:11
Location: Sweden
My Cars:
x 1

Post by NiSk »

Using so much water doesn't necessarily mean HG, the water pump on the 2.1 is also well known for loosing water when worn (it leaks out of the cambelt cover down by the crank vibration damper). What do you mean by "huge emulsification"? If the compression pressures were OK I'd be surprised if the HG hade gone.

Otherwise it's an expensive business if you let a garage do it - getting the head off a TD12 is no fun and it's heavy! Citroen recommend lifting the engine out, but it can be done with it in place -just very tight! It's always necessary to check the straightness of an alu head while its off -otherwise you can get repeat performances and that usually means skimming.

I don't know what they charge for bits and labour in the Uk, but in Sweden its enough to make most owners give up (i.e. more that the car is worth).

//NiSk
Peter.N.
Moderating Team
Posts: 11563
Joined: 02 Apr 2005, 16:11
Location: Charmouth,Dorset
My Cars: Currently:

C5 X7 VTR + Satnav Hdi estate Silver
C5 X7 VTR + Hdi Estate 2008 Red

In the past: 3, CX td Safaris and about 7, XM td estates. Lovely cars.
x 1199

Post by Peter.N. »

I was quoted nearly £1000 to replace the head gasket, thats why I did it myself! The gasket was a genuine Citroen laminated steel one which looks as though it ought to last forever and cost about £70.00 the job took me about two weeks doing an hour or two a day but its not an easy job, it might have been easier a few years ago but at 66 I dont bend as easily as I used to. As NiSK says, Do check the water pump first.
NiSk
Posts: 1422
Joined: 24 Jan 2002, 20:11
Location: Sweden
My Cars:
x 1

Post by NiSk »

Oh almost forgot! While you're messing about with the head, change the water pump, cambelt and tensioner/idler bearings.

//NiSk
Matthew
Posts: 26
Joined: 04 Jan 2005, 02:52
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars:

Post by Matthew »

Thank you.
would Water pump leakmean external leak??, but i cant see anything dropping under the car. As I said the car is very strong, yet still this emulsification under the oil cap I saw gellatine like mixture of water and oil.
HOw do we check water pumps?
Peter.N.
Moderating Team
Posts: 11563
Joined: 02 Apr 2005, 16:11
Location: Charmouth,Dorset
My Cars: Currently:

C5 X7 VTR + Satnav Hdi estate Silver
C5 X7 VTR + Hdi Estate 2008 Red

In the past: 3, CX td Safaris and about 7, XM td estates. Lovely cars.
x 1199

Post by Peter.N. »

Your 'emulsion' would seem to indicate that the gasket is leaking water into the sump. If the pump is leaking you will find water dripping from the bottom of the timing belt cover near the crankshaft pulley.
NiSk
Posts: 1422
Joined: 24 Jan 2002, 20:11
Location: Sweden
My Cars:
x 1

Post by NiSk »

While emulsification does indicate a combination of oil and water, if you were loosing 2 l a day, the sump would be full of water! Infact, check the level in the sump and see if it is noticably higher than the full mark.

If the temp gauge isn't going up and down the scale at regular intervals, you don't have lots of white smoke coming from the exhaust, and the sump isn't full of water, then youd better start looking for water leak eslewhere. What about the front footwells? thats a quite normal place for an XM to dump it's water when the O-rings between the heater matrix and lead-through pipes give up. . .

//NiSk
Post Reply