Should I buy a 1983 GSA Pallas?

tomsheppard · Post by **tomsheppard** » 30 Jul 2005, 16:09

I was referring to the rear cross member which carries the rear arms. It goes. The car goes with it.

David W · Post by **David W** » 30 Jul 2005, 18:39

Basil... Unless it's a heap go for it. The GS/GSA had a wonderful ride that was never really matched with the later BX. They are a truly remarkable car to drive cross country once you master the conservation of momentum style!
If you really want to know what's what speak to Citroen Car Club member Rob Moss of Chevronics in Bedfordshire. He is the no.1 UK GS/GSA specialist... even going as far as remaking many parts that had become unavailable... body repair sections in particular.
Have a look at his website... http://www.chevronics.co.uk/Pages/001Ch ... mpany.html
Click on the Restorations tab then the GS Estate one to see some of their work... and some of the hidden rust issues!
Give me a GS/GSA Pallas any day rather than the "classic" MG Midget I've just been servicing... that cost over twice as much as your £700 prospect... and it seems to have a soft flappy thing where the roof should be!
David

Joe T · Post by **Joe T** » 31 Jul 2005, 00:00

The things that were a pain that I remember from working on them are
Noisey Camshafts, engine out, but some manage to do them in situ
Exhaust Front pipes and y piece, as well as the expansion chambers on the manifolds are quite prone to leaking/rotting all entertaining to replace.
Hydraulic light stays on for ages when starting, hydraulic pump is directly driven off the crank, front end strip down to fix.
Handbrake pads, bit fiddly.
Noisey Gearboxes, bearing turning in there casings, GS suffered with these more than GSA, fix was to strip and loctite, although it took 3 days!!
Rear Flexible brake pipe is just a coil that you wind in prone to failing on MOTs as are all the pipes.
The oil return pipes under the barrels do leak but not normally enough to warrant replacing, plus they stop the front apron from rotting out!
Not sure on the rot as I only worked on them when they were a few years old, but I remember some being Dinotrolled regularly.
My fav would be a GSA X3 which continued the GSX and X2'S line Different Cam and carb, looked a bit sportier.
I also prefered to work on a GSA than a CX,DS
Buy It
Joe T

Stinkwheel · Post by **Stinkwheel** » 31 Jul 2005, 01:28

I've owned 3 GSA's and one GS. And I used two of the GSA's as my daily drivers.
The simple fact is if you are contemplating running a car this old you probably know all the usual old car things to look for and many others have been covered here. A rusty one will be a problem but everything on a G is now repairable due mainly to Rob Moss at chevronics as mentioned above.
They are a pig to work on, its easier to take he front of the car off to change the exhausts for instance.
They drive very well for their age and engine size. The only problem i found with them was this............it was not a scaled down CX or a scaled up 2CV/Dyane and unfortunatly these are my real citroen loves.

Mandrake · Post by **Mandrake** » 31 Jul 2005, 03:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Joe T
Exhaust Front pipes and y piece, as well as the expansion chambers on the manifolds are quite prone to leaking/rotting all entertaining to replace.
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Oh, this brings back memories, how could I forget that ? [:D]
Over the time I had mine I had to get patches welded over the expansion chambers and some of the piping in the exhaust manifold many times... because replacing them with genuine parts was nearly impossible over here...
The other one that always seems to go is the alloy box that the carburetter mounts on, which the two intake manifolds bolt to - it always corrodes out in the bottom, as the bottom half is carrying exhaust fumes.
I bought mine when it was already 15 years old and some clever cloggs had put welsh plugs in the small exhaust pipe joints that go to the bottom of the carburetter mounting box to hide the fact that the entire bottom of the box was eaten out. It didnt sound or run properly like that. Ended up getting an aluminium welding place to weld a plate on the bottom and refinish the bottom corners - good as new! (Better probably, a lot thicker...)
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Hydraulic light stays on for ages when starting, hydraulic pump is directly driven off the crank, front end strip down to fix.
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That was one of my main niggles with the GS, TINY little one piston hydraulic pump which took simply FOREVER to pressurize the car in the morning, even in normal working order.
From about 1977 onwards the problem was somewhat reduced as both front and rear suspension were now fed via seperate one way security valves - in older GS's like my dads 1974 Club, there was no one way valve feeding the suspension so when the regulator pressure leaked away and the front dropped a litle bit, the height corrector would open in the UP direction, but the oil would backfeed to the regulator and make the suspension go down.
The end result is that a pre 1977 model would go down at the front first, and in just a couple of hours too, and would stay up at the back for about 6-10 hours, but both would be down overnight.
On a 1977 or later model the front would stay up quite a long time but the back would go down in a few hours - much the same behaviour as a BX. But unlike the BX the pump is TINY so regardless you were usually facing a 20-30 second wait after a 12 hour park...
Going to an anti-sink Xantia is a bit of a revelation after that [:D]
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Handbrake pads, bit fiddly.
Noisey Gearboxes, bearing turning in there casings, GS suffered with these more than GSA, fix was to strip and loctite, although it took 3 days!!
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Yep, had that happen to me too. As the car was well over 20 years old when I started noticing this and was on its way out due to other reasons I didn't bother to do anything about it.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Rear Flexible brake pipe is just a coil that you wind in prone to failing on MOTs as are all the pipes.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Never had any problem with those rear coiled brake pipes on any GS I've been involved in, perhaps its just the different weather or environment over here, but rust of hydraulic pipes seems to be a non issue here.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
The oil return pipes under the barrels do leak but not normally enough to warrant replacing, plus they stop the front apron from rotting out!
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Heh heh [:D] My Dad devised a modification for those oil seals - basically a higher grade of material that can stand the heat better, plus there are TWO places at the bottom of the pipe where you can put a seal and the factory only fitted one of them. After fitting two of the higher temperature rated seals they wouldn't leak again in the lifetime of the car... (so he tells me)
Ah the memories... [:D] Every now and then I get a slight twinge of nostalgia and realise that I don't know anybody that has a working GS to have a quick drive of anymore, after 3 of them being in and around the family for many years...even Dad's CX has been off the road for quite a while now due to various problems...(mainly rust) so the only Citroen's I've driven recently are Xantia's..
Regards,
Simon

JohnT · Post by **JohnT** » 31 Jul 2005, 05:18

basil40 · Post by **basil40** » 01 Aug 2005, 02:12

Chaps, I saw and drove this car today. There is NO - NONE - nothing - rust wise. The car is exceptionally un rusted. I checked everything and I am a corrosion engineer!! the only dodgy bit of rust was in the rear hatch window inner panel, but the weird thing is - no corrsion on the outer!
Drove very well. Clutch might need adjusting since it was crash boxing - but I had that on my BX Gti. The near side door panels need replacing - not because of rust, but because of dents. This little beautey will be concourse once I get hold of it. Rises up and down beautifully - all the electronics worked - brakes were very hard with no feel, but checked the discs perfect condition. I do believe it's only done 69K miles. I listened to the engine with my "das boot" screw driver - no noises at all. I love the grunt of that little engine. Should have it in A1 in no time!

Stinkwheel · Post by **Stinkwheel** » 01 Aug 2005, 02:21

glad you are taking it on. Pics please when you are ready.

Mandrake · Post by **Mandrake** » 01 Aug 2005, 03:23

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by basil40

Chaps, I saw and drove this car today. There is NO - NONE - nothing - rust wise. The car is exceptionally un rusted. I checked everything and I am a corrosion engineer!! the only dodgy bit of rust was in the rear hatch window inner panel, but the weird thing is - no corrsion on the outer!
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My Mums GSA rusted there on the inner side of the hatch as well....perhaps water leaks from the windscreen wiper arm pivot ?
If the rust is as little as you say for a 22 year old GS and the mileage that low, it sounds like its been garaged for most of its life and hardly driven...(which is good for you of course!) my GS was pretty stuffed by the time it was 22, mind you I bought it cheap when it was 15 and it had already had a bit of a hard life by then and done high mileage, and I never had a garage to keep it in...
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Drove very well. Clutch might need adjusting since it was crash boxing
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"crash boxing" ? Can you translate that for those of us in the antipodies that don't share the same vernacular ? [:D]
Apart from normal wear of the clutch plate I encountered two other problems with the clutch on mine in the time I had it - one was the clutch lever arm that the clutch cable connects to at the gearbox end split on the sides and had to be replaced. Aparently this is not that uncommon but mine didnt happen until about 250,000Km so its unlikely to happen to you.
The other problem I had was one of the rear engine seals (never did find out which one, but probably the main crankshaft seal at the rear of the engine) was leaking a little bit of oil that was finding its way onto the clutch plate - with the end result being that the clutch was a bit snatchy and shuddery until a bit of use had burnt off the oil film... then after a few days it would return. From memory the same thing happened to my Mum's GSA as well, but to a much lesser degree.
If you do take the engine out (for example to do the clutch plate) it might be worth renewing the oil seals at the back of the engine as a preventative measure to avoid this problem.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
- but I had that on my BX Gti. The near side door panels need replacing - not because of rust, but because of dents. This little beautey will be concourse once I get hold of it. Rises up and down beautifully - all the electronics worked - brakes were very hard with no feel, but checked the discs perfect condition.
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When you say "hard" do you mean not much pedal travel (which is normal) or do you mean you have to push quite hard to get good braking ? The GS has outstanding brakes, bettered only by the CX, most likely it is old hard glazed pads. A new set of pads and bleed the brakes and it will probably be good as new.
By the way how did you check the discs, considering they are mounted on the side of the gearbox and difficult to get at...?
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
I do believe it's only done 69K miles. I listened to the engine with my "das boot" screw driver - no noises at all. I love the grunt of that little engine. Should have it in A1 in no time!
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It is a cute little engine I have to admit... if you get a good one. There was seemingly quite a bit of variation from engine to engine, as well as a few revisions of the engine. Some were a bit noisy and sluggish, while the good ones were very quiet (well, for an air cooled flat four [:D]) and sweet sounding with very free reving and good low torque. (My Dad's 1220 was like that)
Don't forget about the cam belts, they may need doing at that mileage. (And since there are two, there is probably twice the statistical risk of one breaking...)
Keep us posted...
Regards,
Simon

Stinkwheel · Post by **Stinkwheel** » 01 Aug 2005, 03:32

What engine has it got? Im guessing 1300cc 'eco' engine.
The best one for revvy power is the 1300cc pre eco, closely followed by the 1220. The best for smooth running is usually the 1130cc.
'eco' by the way means its got altered cams and fuelling to make it cleaner running. Which is boring cos you lost power over the first 1300's.
Belts, change them, get it home and change them, every single G i've had has had floppy horrid belts that were about to break, they are not expensive and its an easy job once the front bumper/undertray are removed. In fact whilst the front is off get all preventative, pull the motor and change the clutch, i can virtually do it blindfolded now and its a one man operation with a bit of care. Whislt its all off you can see what the exhaust front pipes and y pipe are all like, if they are a bit old, change them, it will save you hassle later.
Enjoy, I like G's just wish i had enough cash and space for all these cars i want.

DoubleChevron · Post by **DoubleChevron** » 01 Aug 2005, 05:46

Congratulations,
you must have one of the few good GS's left in the WORLD there. Please tell me your not going to leave it outside and use it as a daily car on your salty roads !!!
seeya,
Shane L.

basil40 · Post by **basil40** » 01 Aug 2005, 14:11

No, I plan to do all the above jobs. First of all need to sort that clutch out. Then do the belts. The near side door panels need replacing - so I'm on the look out, maybe I'll be able to source in France? I'll have it on the road though and will rust proof it. I'll also try to garage it.
Crash boxing means "putting into gear without the able assistance of the clutch" a crude double d.
I don't actually know what the engine is but will find out by this week.
I think we might be ablr to save this one just in time. Who's got a CX then? I knew this guy has a turbo GTi sat in his yard about two years ago, don't know if he still has it.

dnsey · Post by **dnsey** » 01 Aug 2005, 15:05

I'm sure that new door skins were still available not too long ago - but I can't remember where.
I'll rack my brains...

Stinkwheel · Post by **Stinkwheel** » 01 Aug 2005, 15:41

You can still get them. As adamskiBX will testify as he had the ones i got for the 1220 Club.
They were sourced through a CCC member but think if you hunt some will be available.

basil40 · Post by **basil40** » 01 Aug 2005, 16:28

how do you post pictures into the reply frame?