Citroen Xantia TD not starting

first-things-first · Post by **first-things-first** » 13 Oct 2002, 04:31

Hi all
Could someone please give advice as to what could be the issue/next steps to try and diagnose a starting problem with my Xantia TD (1993).
The car has done 150K (60 by me mainly dual carriageway commute up the A12). The car ran fine never failing to start. As I now work at home the old girl (middle age comapred to some I think

) was left outside (didn't have the heart to sell and thought it was run for a lot longer). I used it about once or twice week initially then every two weeks. Started fine each time. Felt the battery was getting flat as it would start on the button if I left it 3-4 seconds after the glow plug light had gone out (7-8 cranks if straight after).
I've never had any fuelling problems. Always service every 6K at main dealer.
Just now (when started getting colder) I've had starting issues. I had to crank and crank until it caught then was all lumpy. Left at airport whilst was away on business and just got it to start. Now it won't start at all. Just cranks over no sign of starting. I;v tried battery and glow plugs (couldn't get cylinder nearest timing belt so only three changed). Still won't start or even catch.
My questions :
I will try fuelling (pump bulb until firm) as this may be issue.
Otherwise could alarm cause pump shutoff (no keypad immobiliser just regular plip alarm). I think it went haywaire when I changed battery. Used key in lock on scuttle to switch off but no advisory clicks so not sure if switched off or not beofre changing. Could be issue ??
Any other probables. My guess is maybe compression. Would it go that quick?? Ran fine until these last two starts.
Thanks in advance
Andrew

JohnD · Post by **JohnD** » 13 Oct 2002, 14:40

Hi Andrew - Eight times out of ten, with the XUDs, reluctance to start is either glo-plugs or air in the fuel lines. Have you tested the plug you can't get out? Is voltage getting to the three new ones? If they are all OK, look to the fuel system. Undo the bleed screw on the filter and use the hand primer. If fuel is pumped out, loosen off a supply pipe to an injector and see if fuel escapes when the engine is turned over. If there's no fuel there, the solenoid may be not working.

first-things-first · Post by **first-things-first** » 13 Oct 2002, 17:18

Hi John
Many thanks for your reply.
I tried the line connecting the glow plugs and the glow plugs themselves. All are getting voltage - around 9v. The glow plug I couldn't get out is so damn awkward to get to (and I wasn't prepared to take the fuel pump off) that I'm not sure if it is working or not. My plan was to change all. My feeling would be that it should start with only three glow plugs??
Will try your suggestions on fuelling.
Thanks
Andrew

JohnD · Post by **JohnD** » 13 Oct 2002, 19:49

Hi Andrew - You're right, the engine should be able to stagger into life on only three plugs. Regarding the one behind the pump - if you have a long reach socket, although there isn't space enough to use the rachet, I find the socket can be turned using a pipe wrench. But maybe you should move on to the fuel side.

sooty · Post by **sooty** » 13 Oct 2002, 22:26

Have you tried leaving the starting for at least 10/15 secs after the light has gone out.
Have you checked to see if you have voltage at the fuel shut-off solenoid on the pump, when the ignition is on ready to start the engine.
You say you are getting 9v ????????, you should be getting 12v min.
A simple test to start the engine would be to have a piece of heavy gauge wire from the battery to the plugs, and hold the wire on the plugs for 15/20 secs and then someone try to start the motor while you hold the wire on the plugs.
If starts that shows there'e a problem with your glow plug ciruit, if don't start. Then try another piece of lighter gauge wire from the battery to the fuel solenoid, and again hold these wires onto the parts mentioned with someone starting the motor for you.
You may get some sparking touching the glow plugs, thats because you pulling alot of current from the battery, be careful what you do with wires, don't let them touch any part of the body work (earth) or you will have an even BIGGER SPARK when let them go.
If it starts you should check your soleniod circuit, if don't then its a problem with the fuel circuit air/water in the fuel or no fuel.
You will have to check it out, ie bleed any air out of the system at the pump, drain any water from the filter and check for free flowing clean fuel when bleeding.
Good luck.
sooty

first-things-first · Post by **first-things-first** » 14 Oct 2002, 05:47

Thanks Sooty for the further information.
More information. I used the hand pump (grenade) to ensure the fuel system was pressurised. I pumped until it became pretty firm.
I started the ignition and then waited till the glow plug light went out. Cranked the engine. No luck.
Tried pre-heat again and when it cranked the second time it started to catch.
Did pre-heat one further time and then cranked engine and it started on second or third turn over.
My feeling is now that there was/is air in the system. I will bleed the fuel filter and go from there. Otherwise I will check the solenoid and fuel lines as suggested.
Thanks to all so far.
Andrew

NiSk · Post by **NiSk** » 14 Oct 2002, 13:47

Note that the preheater warning light is NOT connected to the "hot" side of the preheater relay, it only indicates that the conditions for pulling the relay are fulfilled (see http://citroeny.cz/servis/xantiaser/ele ... _do_98.gif) for more evidence).
You should be getting full battery voltage applied to the preheaters, otherwise there's something wrong with the preheater relay(see same circuit diagram as above) or the connecting wire.
//NiSk

JohnCKL · Post by **JohnCKL** » 14 Oct 2002, 20:48

My Xantia 1.9TD 96 also could not start, even though the engine was cranking. The mechanic found out the small little black box beside the battery was not working. I don't know what it's called but it is written Bosch 12V. I need to replace it but can't find it easily here. Perhaps Andyspares has it.
JohnCKL

first-things-first · Post by **first-things-first** » 14 Oct 2002, 21:39

Good news!
It seems it was air in the system. Being the eternal optimist, I tried starting the engine just now (left overnight and it's pretty cold today) and it started first time!
Thanks JohnCKL for your suggestion. I think you are talking about the glowplug relay. Not a problem I think.
Thanks for everyone's help. There must be life in the old girl yet. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Andrew

first-things-first · Post by **first-things-first** » 20 Oct 2002, 06:01

Hi All
Just thought I would give the final, definitive answer on this one.
The problem came back after initial success. When pressurising the fuel system with the "grenade" hand pump you could hear air escaping/being sucked in if you listened closer enough. Having read another post where one of the injector overflow pipes (the rubber ones between the injectors) was punctured I thought I would try that. After all the pipe costs around a fiver with the end capped pipe.
Having taken off all the pipes except the last one (and they were almost welded on - had to cut off with a knife), it seemed there was no sign of holes or damage. The last injector with the capped pipe broke off as I got pliers on the end. Put a new pipe on and now all is well. Starts fine every time.
Andrew