Activa Differences

mbunting · Post by **mbunting** » 10 Jul 2005, 20:45

I've been quietly getting more and more interested in an Activa for the last 3 - 6 months, having previously owned a 94 Xantia 1.9 TDSX
As far as I can see, the activa was available with the 2L CT Turbo engine, was it also available with the V6 in the UK ?
So, the driveshafts, and clutch are the same as the 2.1TD, so that makes the clutch fairly easy to get hold of (same as XM/406/605 ?)
Presumably though, the drive-shafts will be Xantia specific, or can a pug shaft from a 2.1 also be used ?
What about height correctors - are these standard accross xantia's, and the HP pump, is this a standard 6+2 ( or whatever it is ), or is it Activa specific ?
Presumably ALL the 10 spheres are specific to the Activa ?
Sorry for all the questions, but I may be coming into a little more money soon, and need to change ( for space reasons ) from my AX back to a Xantia, the question is, do I go for an Activa, or an estate... I just wan't to know about possible Activa-specific bills.

zzf00l · Post by **zzf00l** » 10 Jul 2005, 22:14

Not available as a V6 unfortunately.

FDV · Post by **FDV** » 10 Jul 2005, 22:27

Activas are by no means any more difficult to own than a regular Xant.
In the UK the only choice of engine was the 2.0 CT. Abroad they got the 2.0 16v, the 2.1TD, the HDi and the mighty V6. The CT is a good enough engine for everyday use, the power band is more like a diesel. Economy is not however!
Parts are fairly easy to get hold of, the HP pump is the same as a HA 2.0 16v, some spheres are shared with the HA models. The only unique parts are the Activa components themselves, things like hydraulic rams, the lateral sensors etc. Chances of any sensors failing is rare, so I'd just bite the bullet there. The rams are more common a problem and signs are usually lots of knocking from the rear end over bumps. Sounds like a loose spare wheel carrier, but is actually the ram bushes or bush. There is one ram at the front, the other at the back.
If they havent got the right grade of tyre they will destroy it within months so check for a W rated sidewall. Also the ride is known to be harsher than normal Xantias. In honesty if the car has decent spheres the difference is minimal.
Ebay is the best place to find one. For any other info go to www.activanet.co.uk.

mbunting · Post by **mbunting** » 11 Jul 2005, 03:22

Cheers FDV, thank for that.
Tempted, probably looking in a couple of months.

KevMayer · Post by **KevMayer** » 11 Jul 2005, 03:57

I just purchased an Activa on ebay.
Impression so far:-
Ride quality - excellent. takes bumps in its stride. I'd heard people say they're usually a lot firmer but I'm glad to say the one I have is very smooth. Even better than my 1.9 TurboD Xantia.
Performance - mine is a standard setup. Its not as fast as I expected. It runs out of revs quickly in gears 1 and 2. It also wheel spins a lot as you accelerate. But, it has good mid range power for overtaking. It will get up to 100 plus before you realise whats happening. Its a bit thirsty. I've driven it fairly hard so far and I get about 25 miles to the gallon.
Cornering - very impressive. I took it twice around a motorway island late at night. No one else around. I put my foot down (not all the way) and whipped around the island at a hell of a pace totally flat.. wheels squeeking a bit but it was extremely good. No roll at all (well maybe just a slight hint).
I payed 585 GBPounds. It costs me 330 for fully comp insurance (with a good no claims record).
I've had it up to 120 mph and it still wanted more (erm....on a private road).
What do I recommend.... GET ONE..... you'll kick yourself if you don't.

Mandrake · Post by **Mandrake** » 11 Jul 2005, 16:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by KevMayer

I just purchased an Activa on ebay.
Impression so far:-
Ride quality - excellent. takes bumps in its stride. I'd heard people say they're usually a lot firmer but I'm glad to say the one I have is very smooth. Even better than my 1.9 TurboD Xantia.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Just some speculation here, but I wonder if part of the reason some people say they ride harsher is simply the different tyres which no doubt are lower profile and have much harder sidewalls ? That alone will give a harsher ride.
Another thing I can think of is if there is excessive friction in the movement of the rams it would cause a harsher ride on any independant (one sided) bumps as it relies on the ram being able to slide smoothly to allow the activa sphere to soften the otherwise very stiff rollbar.
Since excessive friction on "sticky" front suspension struts on a standard Xantia can make the ride quite a bit harsher than it should be, the same problem could quite possibly apply to the activa rams when they age, before they are audibly knocking.... (Replacing the bushes and lubricating them well probably restoring the straight ahead ride quality)
Does anyone know if the spheres shared with Hydractive 2 are identical in specs or are they slightly firmer ? If they're the same gas pressure and damping holes that really only leaves the tyres, and the combination of the activa rams and the stiffer rollbar.
Also I wonder how many activas have their Activa spheres dead, (or the control solenoid faulty) which would basically result in the rollbar being in stiff mode all the time - causing jittery/harsh straight ahead ride on uneven surfaces, and yet the ride over even bumps like judder bumps would be ok, and the anti-roll cornering system would still be working fine.
Possibly a difficult problem to recognise unless you were rather familiar with how an Activa *should* feel...
Regards,
Simon

ActivaV6uk · Post by **ActivaV6uk** » 11 Jul 2005, 19:30

I’ve been playing with some of the bits off my stripped Activa and there is no way that a ram can seized on the arb, however if the spring sphere is flat then its not going to be very bouncy. when the Activa system is working properly in strait line driving the car should be better than a HA or none ha as the ARB is far softer than that fitted to any of the Citroen range (even the 1.4 BX)!
if your looking at buying an Activa as I’ve said else ware now is about the time to do it the cars I’ve been looking at in both the privet and trade markets aren’t as good as the ones that were coming up 2 years ago i have a feeling the rot has already started to set in...
One annoying but interesting thing... my 3L v6 is better on fuel than all our Activa’s. this is a bit of a surprise until you find that all our Activa’s are showing 200BHP + at the fly and the v6 is only supposed to be 194bhp...
Andy

FDV · Post by **FDV** » 12 Jul 2005, 03:43

Maybe 200bhp Andy, but that was at the FCS "add 50bhp and keep the punters smiling" rollers.
A very good point about the tyres tho Mandrake. The tyres are stiffer at the sidewalls so this could affect the ride.
The rams do not affect ride however. These only come into play when pushing on in corners. In lighter cornering and straight line driving they are basically normal HA Xantia's. Citroen actualy tuned the suspension to be a little stiffer, as a soft riding car with as near as zero body-roll would probably feel a little odd to drive, certainly leaving the driver with no real feel of whats going on under him. Unfortunatly, Activa's still aren't sporty to drive. They impress you rather than thrill you (well sometimes you can have a near turtling situation if you're a real loon!)
Not that it matters really. The differences are so minimal between a non Activa and an Activa. And in my personal opinion, aside from being very composed, most Xantia's ride like a crock of rubbish anyway! My non H/A TD was far more fussy over the bumps than my BX 16v! I think you could get a Xantia to ride properly, but it would require some experimenting with sphere pressures.

ActivaV6uk · Post by **ActivaV6uk** » 12 Jul 2005, 04:00

the V6 uses the same tires as the activa in later life and the sidewalls done play that much of an efect...
the activas been on a RR since the FCS mate and got 201 bhp so the FCS rolers werent that far out

Andy

Mandrake · Post by **Mandrake** » 12 Jul 2005, 04:12

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by FDV
The rams do not affect ride however. These only come into play when pushing on in corners. In lighter cornering and straight line driving they are basically normal HA Xantia's.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I don't see how you can say the rams don't affect the ride. This would be true if there wasn't an Activa sphere and the rams were always locked at a certain length, however when the Activa sphere is switched in circuit (during straight ahead driving etc), any differential bumps (left and right wheel moving a different amount or even in opposite directions) the ram must slide to allow the activa sphere to "soften" the rollbar.
Any "parasitic" friction here would cause a harsher ride on differential bumps in the same way that parasitic friction in the front structs can cause a harsher ride on any kind of bumps.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Citroen actualy tuned the suspension to be a little stiffer, as a soft riding car with as near as zero body-roll would probably feel a little odd to drive, certainly leaving the driver with no real feel of whats going on under him.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
It's quite possible they have tuned it for a sportier ride as well, but nobody has answered my question as to whether the spheres shared with HA2 are the same pressures and damper settings. And if they're not I guess there is no reason why you couldn't change them to be so and get a slightly more comfortable ride.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Not that it matters really. The differences are so minimal between a non Activa and an Activa. And in my personal opinion, aside from being very composed, most Xantia's ride like a crock of rubbish anyway! My non H/A TD was far more fussy over the bumps than my BX 16v! I think you could get a Xantia to ride properly, but it would require some experimenting with sphere pressures.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Fussy ? Not an adjective that means much to me with regards to ride

I've driven both a HA2 and standard Xantia and I thought they both ride pretty well, with the HA2 riding a bit better and having a bit better high speed damping control.
Not as good ride as a CX certainly, but better than my GS used to ride.
(Although I think the GS has far better suspension mechanicals and geometry design, you just can't deny the lack of vibration isolation in the front suspension where the suspension chassis is bolted straight to the body, and the arms use bearings instead of bushes...they would go over large bumps smoothly but small harsh bumps like bridge expansion gaps or manhole covers would jarr right through)
In this regard I think the CX design got it right - proper bearings for suspension arms instead of bushes, and a seperate front to back suspension chassis to maintain overall geometry integrity independant of the body, and then rubber isolation bushes between that lower chassis and the body. The end result is you get the precise geometry of roller bearing arms, but the vibration isolation you'd normally get from rubber bush arms...
Regards,
Simon

DoubleChevron · Post by **DoubleChevron** » 12 Jul 2005, 07:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by FDV

Maybe 200bhp Andy, but that was at the FCS "add 50bhp and keep the punters smiling" rollers.
A very good point about the tyres tho Mandrake. The tyres are stiffer at the sidewalls so this could affect the ride.
The rams do not affect ride however. These only come into play when pushing on in corners. In lighter cornering and straight line driving they are basically normal HA Xantia's. Citroen actualy tuned the suspension to be a little stiffer, as a soft riding car with as near as zero body-roll would probably feel a little odd to drive, certainly leaving the driver with no real feel of whats going on under him. Unfortunatly, Activa's still aren't sporty to drive. They impress you rather than thrill you (well sometimes you can have a near turtling situation if you're a real loon!)
Not that it matters really. The differences are so minimal between a non Activa and an Activa. And in my personal opinion, aside from being very composed, most Xantia's ride like a crock of rubbish anyway! My non H/A TD was far more fussy over the bumps than my BX 16v! I think you could get a Xantia to ride properly, but it would require some experimenting with sphere pressures.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
There's something wrong with your Xantias. My '96 VSX rides better than my BX19tri, it also rides as well if not better than my CX2500 GTi Turbo ...... Strongly suggest you get you H/A spheres tested. I've driven a standard Xantia SX that is the same age as my car and was most dissapointed. It was like a Xantia VSX stuck in hard mode. Personally I'd give a Xantia without Hydractive a miss.
The Xantia is an exceptionally capable car ... It rides extremelly well and handles brilliantly. It's just dull... That's all, boring as a bloody white goods product.
It however rides nowhere near as well as a CX that's not a turbo model. Then again, I'm sure you guys would be horified at the handling of a standard CX. Bodyroll rules !!![}:)] [:D]
seeya,
Shane L.
PS: Yes I'd have an Activa for my wife to drive in a heartbeat.

DoubleChevron · Post by **DoubleChevron** » 12 Jul 2005, 07:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Fussy ? Not an adjective that means much to me with regards to ride

I've driven both a HA2 and standard Xantia and I thought they both ride pretty well, with the HA2 riding a bit better and having a bit better high speed damping control.
Not as good ride as a CX certainly, but better than my GS used to ride.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
There was something wrong with your GS. GS's ride much better than the CX's (infact almost on par with a DS IMO). My GS is the best small car I've EVER driven. It's ride/handling comprimise is brilliant.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
(Although I think the GS has far better suspension mechanicals and geometry design, you just can't deny the lack of vibration isolation in the front suspension where the suspension chassis is bolted straight to the body, and the arms use bearings instead of bushes...they would go over large bumps smoothly but small harsh bumps like bridge expansion gaps or manhole covers would jarr right through)
In this regard I think the CX design got it right - proper bearings for suspension arms instead of bushes, and a seperate front to back suspension chassis to maintain overall geometry integrity independant of the body, and then rubber isolation bushes between that lower chassis and the body. The end result is you get the precise geometry of roller bearing arms, but the vibration isolation you'd normally get from rubber bush arms...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Oh, but CX do have bushes in the front lower arms. CX's are good, infact very good, but not as good as a GS with true center point steering, and high narrow tires ... My GS is sadly rotting away up the back yard (as I can't afford to register it). I've driven CX's, BX's, GS's, DS/ID's and Xantias for the last 12years. Often with one of each registered at the same time, so I do feel qualified to answer some of these questions.
seeya,
Shane L.

mbunting · Post by **mbunting** » 12 Jul 2005, 14:06

So, getting 'back on topic' a little, what about the turbo ? Presumably this is not shared with the diesel ?
So, we're looking at a 406 Turbo, XM Turbo, Xantia Turbo for a spare one ?

ActivaV6uk · Post by **ActivaV6uk** » 12 Jul 2005, 14:18

its not shared that is correct. and those cars are your spairs cars... you can get a hybrid turbo for not alot of cash.

mbunting · Post by **mbunting** » 12 Jul 2005, 17:14

Great, just need to save up a bit of cash, and give the wife the AX now !
No doubt after she's driven the Activa, there'll be a fight on my hands to keep the thing...