BX turbo diesel seriously ill

freek · Post by **freek** » 29 Jun 2005, 14:36

Thank you guys for your advice. On second thought it is indeed better to swap the pump or repair it. The engine is not new of course and I only know the history of the last 5 years, but another engine can also give new surprises. It uses 1 liter of oil in 2-3000 km but starts instantly. Getting the pump of is not difficult according to Haynes. Only problem I see is the timing when replacing it by another. Do you think that marking the position of the old pump is good enough to get it right? And referring to repairing the old one: is there no chance that bits of metal have damaged the inner parts of the pump?
Freek

wrinklet1 · Post by **wrinklet1** » 29 Jun 2005, 14:36

Freek, before you start to look at changing your pump/engine. Have a look at the air intake hose that goes into the air filter box. I had a similar problem on my Bx and it turned out that the air hose (100mm approx diameter) was collapsing when I was revving the engine. Cost £2 to replace from a scrapyard and solved the problem straight away.
Paul

DLM · Post by **DLM** » 29 Jun 2005, 18:21

Freek - I'd also try to confirm 100% where the diesel is coming from - if it is the pump bearing that is leaking then there ought to be evidence. Better a firm diagnosis than an assumed one.

freek · Post by **freek** » 29 Jun 2005, 18:42

I will check it thoroughly of course when dismantling, but the fact that the filter house is absolutely dry as well as the visible part of the pump and the fuel hoses plus the fact that the alternator belt is wet and diesel is dripping out of the plastic cover of the cam belt on the floor tells me that I must fear for the worst...

Post by **Richard Green** » 29 Jun 2005, 18:51

check the feed pipes to the injectors, if its the braided type they fail with age so result is loss of fuel feed pressure.

Post by **Richard Green** » 29 Jun 2005, 18:58

sorry I'm no diesel man ( not tooled up for them ) but I do repairs on them now and then and this has came to my attention, I'm only geared up for petrol engines but also trained in the other and prefer the petrol because its cheaper to repair plus its a different area of the trade.

j_roc · Post by **j_roc** » 29 Jun 2005, 19:49

This is a tricky one to check (due to PSA placing the turbo down the back of the block, on the Xantia annyhow and I would assume the BX unit is the same) - Check the composite rubber connection that connects the turbo to the plastic induction pipe. The rubber can perish and split quite easily leading to similar sounding symptoms that you are describing. Hope this helps.

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 29 Jun 2005, 20:08

have I missed something? I thought the owner of this vehicle had told us that he had found a significant diesel leak from the cambelt cover, presumably from the bearing/seal on the injection pump.
The pipes to the injectors on these engines are steel - and need to be to withstand the pressures. these could crack or work loose but it is unlikely that more than one would be affected and the engine would misfire on one cylinder - bit like a bad sparkplug.
There is a network of leakoff pipes from the injectors which are rubber and may be braided but on a roto-diesel any leakage here makes no difference to the running of the engine but merely makes a mess. (allows air in on a bosch!)
How would collapsed turbo pipes lead to the fuel leakage? They are also unlikely to cause problems when the engine is idling aren't they?
jeremy

freek · Post by **freek** » 30 Jun 2005, 02:49

Well,
Phase 1 is completed. I removed the pump, which was not difficult at all; the cam belt stays in place and I marked the position of the pump. Phase 2 is trying to get a pump for a reasonable price. Repairing is not worth it: a dieselspecialist estimates the costs between Euro 150 (new seal)and 500,- (new bearing). A second hand at a citroen specialist costs app. Euro 150,-. But via internet you can get bargains (www.marktplaats.nl). For example: complete TD engines between Euro 150 and Euro 500 and a complete BX turbo diesel in good shape with new M.O.T. for less than Euro 1000,-. As soon as I have rapaired the car I will write it to you. Freek

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 30 Jun 2005, 02:52

Remember if the cambelt is contaminated it will have to be changed and all its pulleys thoroughly cleaned.
Good luck
Jeremy

j_roc · Post by **j_roc** » 30 Jun 2005, 03:51

I was talking about the smoke from the exhaust - if its comming from elsewhere you have serious problems. It dont cost annything to check the pipes you know. Or has no one ever told you that Jeremy.

freek · Post by **freek** » 05 Jul 2005, 19:08

Hi again,
Well it was definitely the pump: when I removed the cover pieces of metal (the bearing) fell out. So I got a 'new' one and fitted it yesterday. Before removing the old one I marked the position of it and fastened the cambelt pully with two bolts. I positioned the new pump as marked. I bleeded the fuel system, attached the fuel lines again and was then ready to run it again. But guess what: nothing happened. The engine didn't even try to ignite and after several attemps there wasn't even a diesel fume smell in the garage. To be sure I removed the piston from the stop solenoide, but that wasn't the cause either. You understand that I am puzzled now. I detached a fuel line from the pump and checked whether fuel comes out when trying to start. This was positive, but I cannot judge whether there is enough pressure. Can anyone give me some clues what I can check next? Thanks,
Freek

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 05 Jul 2005, 23:11

Have you got it all bled properly?
You have to first bleed the pump, using the primer bulb, then once you've got that bled you've got to bleed the injector lines but undoing the injector union slightly and turning the engine over until diesel comes out, then tightening up and moving on to the next one. The engine SHOULD start and run roughly or at least smoke after you've done a couple of them.

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 05 Jul 2005, 23:13

My gues is that the pump itself hasn't primed. the things used to bristle with bleed points which had to be undone and fuel pumped through but although similar the modern pump incorporates its own lift pump and is much easier to bleed.
My guess is that if the lift pump element dries out it won't draw very well so perhaps a good starting point would be to try and get some fuel into the pump - which you should be able to do using the priming bulb. It may help if you loosen anything that looks useful and you know to be harmeless - eg return pipe, possibly start solenoid and try and get some fuel through the pump and out. Then tighten these and slacken the pipes to the injectors and run the starter until fuel comes out of them - this is important - them tighten them and start the engine.
If white smoke starts pourng out of the exhaust this will be unburnt fuel - which means some is getting there.
jeremy

freek · Post by **freek** » 06 Jul 2005, 02:37

Thank you very much guys! You will have noticed that I haven not done this before. I thought that priming with the hand pump and the power on (open stop solenoid) was enough. I was already in doubt of the quality of this pump. I was a bit desperate because it seemed that everything went wrong this week: last friday my wife was stranded with the CX because of a air intake hose getting off. Last sunday the starting motor on the CX broke down and when replacing it today I saw that the waterpump is starting to leak as well. I won 't be bored this weekend! We'll be in touch.
Freek