Access to radiator fans on aircon Xantia

D.Slatford · Post by **D.Slatford** » 24 Jun 2005, 03:21

Now the hot weathers here and the roads are getting crammed, it's really high time I got those radiator fans working!
I was going to pay an independant cit man in Dewsbury to do it, but turns out he didn't have the right motors, so it's a weekend round the scrappys for me. Having had a closer look tonight at both the car and my wallet, I'd prefer to do this myself. Trouble is, on a 1.9TD aircon equipped Xantia, how do I remove these motors?
I've had the front grille off already and that got me nowhere. Observation and the inadquate information in the haynes manual suggests I need to remove the radiator. It's cramped, but I feel confident enough removing radiator and intercooler - but what about the aircon condenser? It seems firmly fixed behind the fans, right in my way, and looks as if it's difficult or impossible to move without opening up the aircon system? (Which still doesn't work anyway, but that's another story.)
Or am I tackling this the wrong way and there's another method to get to these motors?

Post by **Richard Green** » 24 Jun 2005, 03:57

from my data it looks like the twin fans are at the rear of the condenser so it wont need removing, never done one but I would say the radiator needs to come out unless the slam panel can be removed, have you checked if there is power going to the aircon fans you could try to power them up from the battery this will save you lots of work and time as it might only need re-gassing you know or a fuse/relay problem

Post by **Richard Green** » 24 Jun 2005, 03:59

http://www.andyspares.com/discussionfor ... C_ID=14677

D.Slatford · Post by **D.Slatford** » 24 Jun 2005, 04:20

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Richard Green

http://www.andyspares.com/discussionfor ... C_ID=14677
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
It's not just the aircon being empty, pulling the brown plug on the filter housing causes the relays to operate, but still no motion. There's power to the two 40A fuses, beyond that I can't see anything else wrong. The backs of the motors (and I think bolts fixing them in place?) are infront of the radiator/intercooler so accessible from the engine bay once those are moved back, but sandwiched between those and the motors is the condenser, which looks far less likely to move anywhere.

Post by **Richard Green** » 24 Jun 2005, 04:30

looks to be a sod of a job but at least the aircon is empty so you wont loose anything stripping the condenser out "the fans wont work if the aircon is empty" which is why I pointed you to that post, what you need to do is put battery voltage to the fans after the relay this will eliminate the aircon coolant being the problem " the fans might be ok" and this will save you a lot of unnecessary work.

D.Slatford · Post by **D.Slatford** » 24 Jun 2005, 04:43

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Richard Green

"the fans wont work if the aircon is empty" which is why I pointed you to that post<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Indeed, but they don't work either if the engines so hot it's about to explode

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
what you need to do is put battery voltage to the fans after the relay this<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yeah, but without full access to the motors how might I do this? I'm not sure which contacts in the relay sockets (between the fans) connect to the motors, presumably I test them by putting current directly to one of these and grounding another - but unsure which.

wheeler · Post by **wheeler** » 24 Jun 2005, 04:51

try this thread http://www.andyspares.com/discussionfor ... anner,fans

Post by **Richard Green** » 24 Jun 2005, 13:46

its simple but hard to explain what you need to do is find the loom going to the fans and expose
the wiring then you need to find the supply "I use a probe" very handy tool because you
can power things up with it like the fans and it also tells you which is the live or earth
with the led system on it "it also has a trip switch" so you cant harm anything if you power
the wrong wire, you can also use a multimeter to find the live and earth
http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgur ... ric/Exper/
05104.png&imgrefurl=http://www.
faqs.org/docs/electric/Exper/EXP_3.html&h=508&w=525&sz=25&tbnid=KOhBDMDmZg8J:
&tbnh=124&tbnw=129&hl=en&start=94&prev=/images%3Fq%3Delectric%2Bprobe%26start
%3D80%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN
that's a basic tutor on how to use the tool and understand electrics.
I use FA50 6-24 Volt D C Test Probe
http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgur ... ools.co.uk
/acatalog/FA50.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.franklin-
tools.co.uk/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_TEST_EQUIPMENT_25.html&h=354&w=250&sz=
19&tbnid=nDSJRDFeW_gJ:&tbnh=117&tbnw=82&hl
=en&start=22&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtest%2Bprobe%26start%3D20%26hl%3
Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN
expensive on hat site but you can get a very cheap one on EBay and its a must
for electrics in cars.

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 24 Jun 2005, 13:47

simple if your double jointed,i have done these on air con car,trough front grill,if your fan has a screw in centre this is left hand thread,so instead of lefty loosy righty tighty it righty loosy lefty tighty,then withdraw fan/s from motor spindle/s,cant remeber if its 8 or 10 mm nuts and bolts,which ever it is i used a 1/4 drive ratchet and a spanner,you can just about get in there,undo trhee on each motor,then ease motor away from mounting point,the plug stayes atached to front panel regards malcolm

alan s · Post by **alan s** » 24 Jun 2005, 15:19

I did it a while back and it's a fun job.
I believe as Malcolm has said that they can be removed without demolishing the entire front of the car which is more of a tedious job than a difficult one.
Why bother spending time and money on second hand ones though? It's not the kind of job you really want to do again in the foreseeable future, why not just rebuild them? There's nothing much to them and in my case it was the carbon brushes that wore out on them, that's all and the rest was as new. Once rebuilt they spin like tops. Mine is air/conditioned and we need air/con for close to 8 months of the year, so mine get a good solid working over.
Here's where I redid mine FWIW.
http://www.andyspares.com/discussionfor ... C_ID=10752
Alan S

ghostrider · Post by **ghostrider** » 24 Jun 2005, 18:37

I have done mine, by dismantling the front of the car, remove trim panel between headlights, headlights, bumper, not too bad the tricky bit is getting the front panel off (on mine its grey glassfbre) because the rad /intercooler/condenser sit in it at the bottom on rubber mounts so you need to jack all 3 up to slide the panel out.
The wiring for the fans runs up one of the "spokes" supporting the motor, Richard G I think, manages to do it just by removing the front trim panel, I tried and failed, my problem was one of the connectors, which I would have struggled with if I hadn't done it this way also my mounting bolts were rusty and even with them off the car they were a pig to undo.
Be VERY careful with the condensor, the pipes from the drier bottle and compressor enter it at the bottom left as you look at the car, they are nice ally pipes held in place with a bit of mild steel plate with a bolt through it, my pipes were so weakened by dissimilar metal corrosion that just moving the condenser caused them to break, ?365 from cit for new hoses [:(],
I visited several scrappies looking for S/H hoses but they seem to have fitted a gazillion different compressors each one of which has its own special connector so if you need pipes make sure of what model compressor is on yours.
Pete
________
Help For Love

D.Slatford · Post by **D.Slatford** » 24 Jun 2005, 19:19

Thank you Ghostrider!
That's just the sort of account I was hoping for. Sounds like access from the front is more sensible, but needing the whole front of the car removing, tedius. Did you have any trouble jacking up the rad/intercooler/condensor - do they all move at once, jacked at the same point, any risk of falling down completely after the fibreglass panels removed?
I learnt the hard way that these Xantias have a range of compressors. Mine looks shot - green underneath, with a scraping, wobbly clutch. The replacement I got is longer, with different connections. I'm hoping the aircon specialist I'll have a word with tomomorrow can somehow adapt it, yet I doubt that. Still, cooling must work first!

ghostrider · Post by **ghostrider** » 24 Jun 2005, 21:56

the rad is easy undo the two clips (couple of spring clips one either end, just lift them up) at the top and you can then lift the rad out of its rubber bushes in the bottom and rest it on the front crossmember just behind it. the Intercooler and condenser are slightly more tricky, (my short term memory isn't what it used to be), but I think what I did was to lift one end of the intercooler and condensor out of their rubber bushesand then eased the front panel forward so that they didn't relocate and then repeated the procedure with the other end.
The panel will then ease out and the Intercooler and condenser will just sit on the front crossmember which is directly underneath the front panel. I seem to remember that a bit of the front panel broke off whilst I was doing this, nothing crucial just annoying why they mounted the various rads on the front panel I hae no idea on the bx they sit in the front crossmember.
Sounds like your original was a Harrison and the replacement is a Sanders. My Aircon guy had a reference book with pictures of every comp. fitted to Xantias so he was able to pick the correct one as they all use different quantities and types of oil for som unknown reason.
The other problem you may have is one of the comp connections goes to the condensor, they used to sell it separately but now it is welded to a small plate along with the pipe to the drier bottle, so I wound up buying this combined hose assembly ?365 [:(], you will also need the pipe from the other compressor connection to wherever it goes if the ends are different to your old compressor. I'd go back to the scrappy and see if you can get the pipes as well
Pete
________
Weed Vaporizers

pete@co.uk · Post by **pete@co.uk** » 25 Jun 2005, 14:03

hi guys
So correct me if im wrong here but if the aircon does,nt work then the radiator fans don,t work is that right.
pete.......................

Clogzz · Post by **Clogzz** » 25 Jun 2005, 17:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pete@co.uk

hi guys
If the aircon doesn't work then the radiator fans don't work is that right.
pete.......................
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Not necessarily.
When the air conditioner is switched on, the fans start spinning at the low speed, and keep spinning for all the time that the air conditioning is on.
Without air conditioning, the fans will start spinning at the low speed when the engine temperature reaches about 90ºC.
They stop when the temperature drops to below about 80ºC.
They will spin at the high speed when the engine is close to overheating, or when the air conditioner gets close to overload.
Even in very hot weather, I've never had instances where the fans had to go to high speed.
Despite that, the fans still behave erratically, and sometimes go to high speed for no reason, even in the cold of winter.
That's derangement in the electrical system; mine does it, many others do it too.
There's plenty of context to that...see related posts.