Xantia handbrakes and the MOT

MW · Post by MW » 14 Jun 2005, 19:44

Just got my 95 Xantia through the MOT. Actually it breezed through with just one rear bulb that wasn't orange enough! Cheapest MOT for years. But apparently it was a close call with the handbrake, and I don't know what, if anything, I could have done to improve matters.
My garage tells me that the rules on handbrake testing have been changed since April, and that they now test their efficiency on the rolling road instead of using the old-fashioned method. The results of the test are then fed down the phone to the Ministry's computer, which awards a pass or fail automatically.
My brakes are in perfect condition. My front pads are new, my o/s caliper's been replaced recently, my cable and linkage is fine, my disks are completely perfect, and the whole shebang had been cleaned and de-dusted by the garage during a service just before the test. Yet apparently I was only a whisker away from a fail. On this evidence, it looks as though the 95 Xantias' handbrakes are simply designed incorrectly for passing the MOT! And that no allowances are made for the model.
Can anybody share any light on this, please?
Cheers

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 14 Jun 2005, 20:00

How are your handbrake cables?
My '97 Xantia has a much better handbrake than the 95, the 97 has bigger discs but I think the difference is the condition of the handbrake cables. The '94 Xantia was eating cables at one point because there is a guide for the cable on the suspension strut which wore through them. The later Xantia has a couple of plastic inserts in these guides where as the earlier one doesn't (I don't know whether they've been lost or were never fitted) and the handbrake cables on the later Xantia don't wear through the way the earlier ones did.
Check yours (or have them checked) and replace them if they've started to wear. The solution (read bodge) on the earlier car was to stick a piece of rubber hose pipe over the hand brake cable where it goes through the guide to stop the guide wearing the cable, instead it now has to wear the rubber out which is fairly hefty.

bxbodger · Post by **bxbodger** » 14 Jun 2005, 20:00

Was it inneficiency or just too much travel?? I always overadjust the BX's handbrake cables because although they work fine with lots more travel than if they worked on the rears, the tester doesn't like it and wants no more than 4 or 5 clicks before full engagement.No amount of moaning at him that it works just as well with 10 or 12 clicks will persuade him, its just the way he is!!
Maybe the tester just didn't pull it hard or far enough. Anyway, I thought that the new system was automatically aware of oddities and warned the tester. It may be worth posting on the Car Mechanicshttp://www.carmechanicsmag.co.uk/cgi-bi ... ?board=mot MOT forum, there are a lot of testers on there, although they do get a bit carried away with the chit chat!!

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 14 Jun 2005, 20:01

I think your xantia's handbrake is the unmodified one which is essentially the same as that on the BX. the modification was merely the deletion of the first teeth of the ratchet to help prevent the car running away.
The handbrake should be very effective - not just marginal like some cars and in fact sone roadtests of BX found that the handbrake exceeded the required standard for the footbrake - so it can be effective.
The simple cure is to adjust it - engine running, foot hardish on footbrake and work the handbrake lever a few times - it usually tightens up significantly!.
The brake should hold the car on any hill with a very light application - not the good heave necessary on a ZX with drums! This is actually one of the reasons it runs away - scenario is you get the brakes hot during driving - then as a mechanically sympathetic driver apply the brake so that it holds - then get out and leave the car. brakes cool and narrow slightly - yes thats it - the brake releases! Citroens answer was to delete the first ratchet teeth so you have to pull it on harder.
If that doesn't work - have a look at the cables and make sure they are both intact - then have a look at the compensator linking the 2 cables to the lever. This should be at right angles to the lever and if its not then you have a problem on one side. Check the cables are adjusted properly, thet the operating levers on the caliper are free and that the adjuster is working.
jeremy

MW · Post by MW » 14 Jun 2005, 20:46

Wow, what a mine of useful information! Thanks guys! I'll check it out.

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 14 Jun 2005, 20:52

I think the cable protectors are fitted by different manufacturers. I have 2 Quinton Hazell cables on my BX and they have a thick blue protector on them. Whether others fit them i don't know.
I would have called the hosepipe protectors a sensible precaution to ensure the brake works - not a bodge!
jeremy

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 14 Jun 2005, 22:27

The protectors on the '97 are a moulded plastic insert that goes into the guide, it isn't part of the cable but they really do a good job of protecting the cable. The cable already has a thin extra sheath over it to protect it from wear but it wore straight through fairly quickly.
I did 3 handbrake cables on that Xantia over 3 years (before the hose modification happened) where as in the last 2 years I've done no cables on either car.

ghostrider · Post by **ghostrider** » 14 Jun 2005, 23:15

I'd go along with the hose pipe not being a bodge, I always did it on the CX and with that set up the only way you could get it through an MOT was to adjust it just before you took it to the garage, unless it was more than 20 miles away in which case you would need to adjust it on the roadside just before the garage [:D] [:D] [:D] [:D] [:D] and even then it wasn't a lot of use, separate pads about 30mm diameter to hold a ton and a half of car [:D] [:D]. Back to the Xantia, check that the handbrake adjuster is working on both calipers, I had a new one for the BX (the xantia caliper is very similar from the handbrake point of view) from GSF and the adjuster packed up after just a couple of months, water seems to get in down the handbrake operating lever and corrods everything that you think is nicely protected by the rubber boot on the inside edge of the caliper! Just had to replace my N/S one for the MOT as well.
________
REVENT?N

Homer · Post by **Homer** » 14 Jun 2005, 23:51

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by MW

Just got my 95 Xantia through the MOT. Actually it breezed through with just one rear bulb that wasn't orange enough! Cheapest MOT for years. But apparently it was a close call with the handbrake, and I don't know what, if anything, I could have done to improve matters.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Once had a BX fail the MOT on the handbrake, they tested it on the rear wheels.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">My garage tells me that the rules on handbrake testing have been changed since April, and that they now test their efficiency on the rolling road instead of using the old-fashioned method. The results of the test are then fed down the phone to the Ministry's computer, which awards a pass or fail automatically.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
How does the computer know the tester is pulling the handbrake and not having a sly press of the footbrake? Sounds like an awfully complex system for no real benefit.

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 15 Jun 2005, 00:12

It was always tested on the rolling road wasn't it?
Jeremy

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 15 Jun 2005, 00:54

the reason outter cables crack is because when the steering is turned it bends the cable around the strut,if they are in good order and not over adjusted so when off the lever on calliper is fully released,and piston is set to corect position,then all you need to do to adjust it is on level ground engine running hand brake off press brake pedle very hard 3 to 4 times (dont stamp on it ) it will be adjusted up as it should be,and perfectly MOTable regards malcolm

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 15 Jun 2005, 01:23

I had 3 cables wear through their outer at exactly the same spot, where they go through the guide on the strut. The inner metal would then be exposed to the elements and must rust and then snap so that it would jam the cable. Apart from this one section (1/2 inch long) the cables were in perfect condition. Putting the hose outer on the old car stopped it from eating cables.

ActivaV6uk · Post by **ActivaV6uk** » 15 Jun 2005, 03:32

How do they test normal cars handbreaks? there is no power to the back wheels of a bout 60% of the cars on the road, how do you test the handbreak in this situation??? a roling road is only any use if there is something to power the wheels surely.
Andy

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » 15 Jun 2005, 03:39

The rollers on the break test are powered, so when the breaks are applied the system measures the resistance the rollers are being put under, Thus giving a measurement on how good the breaks are.
Tony

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 15 Jun 2005, 03:47

the point where the cable is in the guide is exactly where it is flext when steering is turrnd,this is why outter cable cracks at that point,by sleeving it you stop wet and crap getting in,this is why it helps protect cable regards malcolm