I've been dragging the family around in touring caravans for many a long year now, towing with everything from Sierras, Chavaliers and most recently a 405TD. I never rated the 405 as a towcar, rear suspension too soft and a bit of a handful with the 'van on the back.
Today we have been digging our 'van out if it's winter sleep (the mercury has to be above 20 before we venture out - were not very dedicated...) and for the first time I gave it a good tug with the Xantia. Wow! is all I can say. For the first time ever I actually enjoyed towing it. Lowered reght down to couple up, suspension back to normal and off we went. Apart from a bit of a lack of urge it's a fair statement to say we didn't know the 'van was on the back. No soggy rear end, no pitching, no yawing no nothing, no drama. Even the mirrors are well shaped to take the clip-on towing mirrors. IMO, despite having exactly the same engine, the Xantia seems to have more urge than the 405 when towing too. Turned what was a chore in the 405 into (nearly) a pleasure.
I now understand why the caravan press shed tears and wrung it's hands in dispair when Citroen discontinued the BX.
Do I ever love my Xantia.... One very useful and competent car.
Towing with a Xantia
Moderator: RichardW
After towing with my Dads 406 HDI est the last few weeks,i too miss the Xantia`s suspension.The 406 sags a fair old bit,& grounds out when pulling the `van off the rear of our property.No probs at all with the Xantia.It also rides better with the `van on the back,the 406 is "ok".
Although the 406 pulls the van alot better(110bhp).It seems to keep the speed up on the motorway more than my 115 ish bhp Xantia.
Although the 406 pulls the van alot better(110bhp).It seems to keep the speed up on the motorway more than my 115 ish bhp Xantia.
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JohnD
- (Donor 2022)
- Posts: 2632
- Joined: 14 Mar 2001, 23:41
- Location: Epsom, Surrey
- My Cars: 2010 Citroen C5-X7 tourer
1998 Citroen Saxo 1.5D
2018 Citroen C4-B7
1998 Peugeot 306. 1.9D
2011 Citroen C1 - x 72
- Contact:
We've been caravanning for 39 years, and since 1991, I've used nothing but hydropneumatic Citroens. First, a BX TZD estate which towed at nearly 100% weight ratio, but yet coped effortlessly through central Spain each winter for eight years. Since '98, I've used a 2.1 Xantia with a VanAaken box which has increased power to 130bhp and torque to 215lbft. It's just got to be the best tow car I've ever used.
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martyhopkirk
Hydropneumatic Citroen's are well known for being good tow cars, "despite" being front wheel drive, and (having done my share of towing) I think theres a few contributing factors -
The obvious one is the height correction keeps the rear suspension from sagging, and also stops the front suspension lifting. By keeping the suspension in the middle of the optimum range, you maximize stability and ride/handling, which can get severely compromised if the suspension is bottomed at the back. (And too high at the front)
Good rear suspension geometry (trailing arms) also helps stability under load - some types of conventional suspension do very odd things with the camber when compressed down.... (*cough* Rovers *cough*)
As well as the height, the hydropneumatic system automatically makes the suspension STIFFER in direct proportion to the load increase - the more the load, the more oil pressure required to lift the weight, the more the volume of gas is compressed, the stiffer the springing gets. This ensures that the ride quality stays the same, and also that the self resonant frequency of the suspension stays constant with load changes, which means that the damping remains optimal. (With conventional springs the damping is sub-optimal at anything other than one specific load)
The opposite happens at the front - the small reduction in weight on the front wheels causes the front suspension to get SOFTER by an appropriate amount, to maintain optimal ride and damping, and best traction on uneven surfaces.
Another factor, which is difficult to put your finger on, is the damping characteristics of the rear suspension are quite different to conventional springs and shockabsorbers, such that it tends to resist the sudden lurching movements that caravans induce.
Also, most Citroen's tend to have a longer than usual wheelbase, and MUCH shorter than usual overhang from the back wheels to the tow ball, (particularly the Xantia, and the trusty old GS) and this gives the caravan MUCH less leverage to try and rock the suspension up and down, and in particular it affects how much the ball down weight affects lifting off of weight on the front wheels. (The shorter the overhang, and/or the longer the wheelbase, the less weight lift off there is on the front, and the better traction)
Finally, because the suspension has plenty of travel, and is a lot more supple than most conventionally sprung suspensions, this helps equalize weight on each wheel on uneven surfaces, and helps maximize traction. (Citroen's tend to be rather front heavy too, which also maximizes traction on a front wheel drive car..)
All in all, very good tow cars, provided it's a model with enough ommph [:D]
Regards,
Simon
The obvious one is the height correction keeps the rear suspension from sagging, and also stops the front suspension lifting. By keeping the suspension in the middle of the optimum range, you maximize stability and ride/handling, which can get severely compromised if the suspension is bottomed at the back. (And too high at the front)
Good rear suspension geometry (trailing arms) also helps stability under load - some types of conventional suspension do very odd things with the camber when compressed down.... (*cough* Rovers *cough*)
As well as the height, the hydropneumatic system automatically makes the suspension STIFFER in direct proportion to the load increase - the more the load, the more oil pressure required to lift the weight, the more the volume of gas is compressed, the stiffer the springing gets. This ensures that the ride quality stays the same, and also that the self resonant frequency of the suspension stays constant with load changes, which means that the damping remains optimal. (With conventional springs the damping is sub-optimal at anything other than one specific load)
The opposite happens at the front - the small reduction in weight on the front wheels causes the front suspension to get SOFTER by an appropriate amount, to maintain optimal ride and damping, and best traction on uneven surfaces.
Another factor, which is difficult to put your finger on, is the damping characteristics of the rear suspension are quite different to conventional springs and shockabsorbers, such that it tends to resist the sudden lurching movements that caravans induce.
Also, most Citroen's tend to have a longer than usual wheelbase, and MUCH shorter than usual overhang from the back wheels to the tow ball, (particularly the Xantia, and the trusty old GS) and this gives the caravan MUCH less leverage to try and rock the suspension up and down, and in particular it affects how much the ball down weight affects lifting off of weight on the front wheels. (The shorter the overhang, and/or the longer the wheelbase, the less weight lift off there is on the front, and the better traction)
Finally, because the suspension has plenty of travel, and is a lot more supple than most conventionally sprung suspensions, this helps equalize weight on each wheel on uneven surfaces, and helps maximize traction. (Citroen's tend to be rather front heavy too, which also maximizes traction on a front wheel drive car..)
All in all, very good tow cars, provided it's a model with enough ommph [:D]
Regards,
Simon
I have towed some really big loads with my old CX C-matic including a 2 ton trailer out of a paddock loaded with so much firewood the tyres were rubbing under the guards as well as towing a couple of really big trees ove a couple of hundred metres.
The funniest one though was a few months back when my son took our 16 foot half cabin out fishing and I went to collect him. I reversed back into the boat ramp and had the boat loaded whenone of the local posers arrived in his V8 Land Cruiser, to collect his boat; mine was a fibreglass boat with a full load on board, he had a 12 foot aluminium open boat. I had the half cabin loaded, out the water and was driving out of the car park before this w***er had hit the top of the boat ramp (in low range 4 wheel drive I must ad).
If he had half a brain he must have seen what a total waste of money fuel and effort buying this urban cruiser to do with difficulty what I could do in a fraction of the time in a Xantia with no effort at all.
Alan S
The funniest one though was a few months back when my son took our 16 foot half cabin out fishing and I went to collect him. I reversed back into the boat ramp and had the boat loaded whenone of the local posers arrived in his V8 Land Cruiser, to collect his boat; mine was a fibreglass boat with a full load on board, he had a 12 foot aluminium open boat. I had the half cabin loaded, out the water and was driving out of the car park before this w***er had hit the top of the boat ramp (in low range 4 wheel drive I must ad).
If he had half a brain he must have seen what a total waste of money fuel and effort buying this urban cruiser to do with difficulty what I could do in a fraction of the time in a Xantia with no effort at all.
Alan S