Ah, that might explain it then. To be honest I did unscrew it a bit far, expecting the rushing noise to happen which never did. It's possible then that the garage unscrewed it too far and lost the ball bearing which is a pain in the ar5e! I shall check that next when putting on a new acc sphere. Is it possible that I need 2 ball bearings? One for the acc sphere and one for the bleed valve? Would this explain the rapid chattering of the regulator? Click click click click click click click.....click......click.................click...........................click................................................click............................click..... whenever I start the car or raise the suspension to max?
Is driving the car like this doing any damage at all? I don;t want to have to fork out for a new pump too or something if that's the case...
Pressure Reg ticking too much
Moderator: RichardW
The stoplight going out straight away is a sign that the accumulator sphere is flat. Normally it takes a few seconds to build up pressure as the gas in the accumulator is compressed. No gas in the accumulator - no time needed to compress.
Ball in the non return valve is still there but may need re-seating. I wouldn't touch it yet - check one under screw is there and make sure you have a sound accumulator and see what happens.
jeremy
Ball in the non return valve is still there but may need re-seating. I wouldn't touch it yet - check one under screw is there and make sure you have a sound accumulator and see what happens.
jeremy
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Chrispy</i>
Ah, that might explain it then. To be honest I did unscrew it a bit far, expecting the rushing noise to happen which never did.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Quarter of a turn is all I ever use.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
It's possible then that the garage unscrewed it too far and lost the ball bearing which is a pain in the ar5e! I shall check that next when putting on a new acc sphere.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Why not check now ? You might save yourself a sphere, if it isn't faulty. As long as you depressurize the suspension and accumulator properly, (follow the procedures mentioned on this forum) then it should be relatively safe to remove the bolt and inspect whether the ball is there or not. Expect some oil to squirt out, and make sure you have a big tray underneath and your hand with a rag over the bolt hole to catch the ball if it is in there, so you don't go loosing it yourself [:D]
When you replace the ball (whether it was there, or whether you had to supply a new one) make sure the hole is clear of any foreign bodies, such as grit, or munched up pieces of o-ring, and also check that the bolt has an appropriate o-ring fitted in good condition.
The way the sealing works is there is a seated ball valve with the bolt tip holding the ball hard against the seat, with the high pressure behind the ball valve. When you slacken the bolt, the pressure behind the ball lifts it off the seat and allows the oil to flow around the ball into the front cavity. This front cavity has a large overflow port which is piped back to the resoviour tank.
The o-ring on the bolt prevents any leakage past the bolt while this is going on, and a simple o-ring is sufficient because the pressure is low due to the overflow port. (The o-ring only has to withstand a few psi of overflow pressure, not the full 2400 psi of the regulator)
The squeal/whistle noise occurs at the point where the oil rushes through the crack between the lifted ball and the seat, so obviously that noise wont occur if the ball is missing. (But there also wont be a noise if the accumulator has no gas pressure)
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Is it possible that I need 2 ball bearings? One for the acc sphere and one for the bleed valve?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Possible, but unlikely. The non return valve is partially behind a small plate held on by a bolt, in the cavity where you screw the sphere onto. I can't see any reason why someone would remove it. The effect of it being removed would be quite different too.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Would this explain the rapid chattering of the regulator? Click click click click click click click.....click......click.................click...........................click................................................click............................click..... whenever I start the car or raise the suspension to max?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
The noise is easy to explain - the pressure is going up and down all the time, either due to a lack of gas in the accumulator, or due to constant leakage of pressure. It's normal for the regulator to make a click when it switches to bypass mode (operating pressure reached, pump circulates back to the tank) but when the gas in the accumulator is low or non existant it makes a LOUD click instead of a soft one.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Is driving the car like this doing any damage at all? I don;t want to have to fork out for a new pump too or something if that's the case...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
If the accumulator sphere is dead flat, then yes, you would be putting a lot of extra strain on the HP pump, as it doesn't have a compressable medium to pump against.
If on the other hand the bleed valve was leaking that wouldn't hurt the pump, but the constant chattering of the regulator probably wouldn't be good for the regulator in the long term.
In either scenario, but especially the latter, your front brake performance would be significantly compromised, so I wouldn't let a problem like this linger...
Regards,
Simon
Ah, that might explain it then. To be honest I did unscrew it a bit far, expecting the rushing noise to happen which never did.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Quarter of a turn is all I ever use.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
It's possible then that the garage unscrewed it too far and lost the ball bearing which is a pain in the ar5e! I shall check that next when putting on a new acc sphere.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Why not check now ? You might save yourself a sphere, if it isn't faulty. As long as you depressurize the suspension and accumulator properly, (follow the procedures mentioned on this forum) then it should be relatively safe to remove the bolt and inspect whether the ball is there or not. Expect some oil to squirt out, and make sure you have a big tray underneath and your hand with a rag over the bolt hole to catch the ball if it is in there, so you don't go loosing it yourself [:D]
When you replace the ball (whether it was there, or whether you had to supply a new one) make sure the hole is clear of any foreign bodies, such as grit, or munched up pieces of o-ring, and also check that the bolt has an appropriate o-ring fitted in good condition.
The way the sealing works is there is a seated ball valve with the bolt tip holding the ball hard against the seat, with the high pressure behind the ball valve. When you slacken the bolt, the pressure behind the ball lifts it off the seat and allows the oil to flow around the ball into the front cavity. This front cavity has a large overflow port which is piped back to the resoviour tank.
The o-ring on the bolt prevents any leakage past the bolt while this is going on, and a simple o-ring is sufficient because the pressure is low due to the overflow port. (The o-ring only has to withstand a few psi of overflow pressure, not the full 2400 psi of the regulator)
The squeal/whistle noise occurs at the point where the oil rushes through the crack between the lifted ball and the seat, so obviously that noise wont occur if the ball is missing. (But there also wont be a noise if the accumulator has no gas pressure)
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Is it possible that I need 2 ball bearings? One for the acc sphere and one for the bleed valve?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Possible, but unlikely. The non return valve is partially behind a small plate held on by a bolt, in the cavity where you screw the sphere onto. I can't see any reason why someone would remove it. The effect of it being removed would be quite different too.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Would this explain the rapid chattering of the regulator? Click click click click click click click.....click......click.................click...........................click................................................click............................click..... whenever I start the car or raise the suspension to max?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
The noise is easy to explain - the pressure is going up and down all the time, either due to a lack of gas in the accumulator, or due to constant leakage of pressure. It's normal for the regulator to make a click when it switches to bypass mode (operating pressure reached, pump circulates back to the tank) but when the gas in the accumulator is low or non existant it makes a LOUD click instead of a soft one.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Is driving the car like this doing any damage at all? I don;t want to have to fork out for a new pump too or something if that's the case...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
If the accumulator sphere is dead flat, then yes, you would be putting a lot of extra strain on the HP pump, as it doesn't have a compressable medium to pump against.
If on the other hand the bleed valve was leaking that wouldn't hurt the pump, but the constant chattering of the regulator probably wouldn't be good for the regulator in the long term.
In either scenario, but especially the latter, your front brake performance would be significantly compromised, so I wouldn't let a problem like this linger...
Regards,
Simon
Yeah, just done the accumulator test again. I turn the engine off, go sit in the boot and it just sinks by about 4 inches.....no rising at all. My acc sphere is not holding pressure for some reason. Either the release valve BB is missing, or the sphere itself was dead before it was replaced last week.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Chrispy</i>
Yeah, just done the accumulator test again. I turn the engine off, go sit in the boot and it just sinks by about 4 inches.....no rising at all. My acc sphere is not holding pressure for some reason. Either the release valve BB is missing, or the sphere itself was dead before it was replaced last week.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Make sure you remember to tell us all when you find the problem [:)]
I guess at least over there spheres aren't too expensive. Over here the retail price is about $164, which on exchange rates alone works out to 64 pounds UK. [:(!] (we're ripped off for Citroen spares over here, although there is a reasonable independant second hand parts market)
Also, if it turns out the sphere the garage fitted was DOA, surely they must refund it ?
If they knew what they were doing, they would know that you probably bought it in to get the accumulator sphere replaced because the regulator was ticking too often (and other symptoms) and when they did a check after fitting it they would have noticed that the ticking was even more frequent and that something must have gone wrong.
It's a couple of minutes to do the sitting in the boot test - no special equipment needed, so it's either ignorance or negligence that they let you drive away after charging you to make things worse [:(!]
(For proof that garages can make awful stuffups with Citroen's look at the thread "Bouncy Suspension" where we finally discovered a garage had put pressure accumulator spheres on the front suspension! - Anything is possible...)
Regards,
Simon
Yeah, just done the accumulator test again. I turn the engine off, go sit in the boot and it just sinks by about 4 inches.....no rising at all. My acc sphere is not holding pressure for some reason. Either the release valve BB is missing, or the sphere itself was dead before it was replaced last week.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Make sure you remember to tell us all when you find the problem [:)]
I guess at least over there spheres aren't too expensive. Over here the retail price is about $164, which on exchange rates alone works out to 64 pounds UK. [:(!] (we're ripped off for Citroen spares over here, although there is a reasonable independant second hand parts market)
Also, if it turns out the sphere the garage fitted was DOA, surely they must refund it ?
If they knew what they were doing, they would know that you probably bought it in to get the accumulator sphere replaced because the regulator was ticking too often (and other symptoms) and when they did a check after fitting it they would have noticed that the ticking was even more frequent and that something must have gone wrong.
It's a couple of minutes to do the sitting in the boot test - no special equipment needed, so it's either ignorance or negligence that they let you drive away after charging you to make things worse [:(!]
(For proof that garages can make awful stuffups with Citroen's look at the thread "Bouncy Suspension" where we finally discovered a garage had put pressure accumulator spheres on the front suspension! - Anything is possible...)
Regards,
Simon