XM manual gearbox problem

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ds2000
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XM manual gearbox problem

Post by ds2000 »

XM with a slight gearbox problem, weird!
Its stuck in 4th gear, I can move the gearstick about but then the box just binds up and you have to rock the car back and forth to release the other gear. The car can be driven around in 4th with out issue, once momentum has been gained (not too good for the clutch though).
I did manage to get it in to neutral for a little while, this then allowed the car to be driven normally, but it only made about 100ft in 1st and 2nd only before it jumped back into 4th gear and bound itself up.
I've taken the end plate off the gearbox and it looks alright, I've pulled and pushed the selector forks about to get it into neutral but once the engine is started and everything moves, back into 4th it goes.
Has anyone come across this before?
I've had a look at the linkage, seems ok but I wouldn't know what it was supposed to look like.
Failing that realistically how difficult is it to change a manual gearbox? driveshafts etc? will i need to remove the whole engine? (its the 2L turbo if that makes any difference)
Any advice or comment welcomed.
citronut
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Post by citronut »

how do you know its 4th it is going into,as i cant see how it can do this unless detent balls or springs missing,have you had car driving normaly,if so has any work been done on the car that may have caused this prob regards malcolm
NiSk
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Post by NiSk »

I've had this happen to my old ('93) XM TD12 - only in my case it was reverse gear it got stuck in (!) Fortunately I was very close to friends house (he has a grease pit). I go the box back in neutral by diconnecting the link rods and wangling the selector arm with a mole grip while at the same time moving one of the (jacked up and removed tyre)front hubs to unload the forces in the gear train. Removing the L:H front wheel also give acces to the selector arm through the hole in the inner wing (shroud removed).
On further investigation it appeared that the combination of wear in all of the anchorages for the bellcranks, balls and link rods had allowed the selector arm to be exposed to forces in incorrect directions ( I guess the selector was worn as well). I solved the problem permanently by replacing the complete rod/lever/ball assembly under the car, from the attachment to teh bottom of the gear lever right forward to (but not including)the selector arm. I seems that there was a mod to this assembly sometime in '94 - the attachment points where reinforced on the new version and didn't allow nearly as much play as the old version.
I have read several comments on the Swedish Citroën web forum concerning this problem so it it's not that uncommon, but mostly on older vehicles that have done many miles.
//NiSk
ds2000
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Post by ds2000 »

Hi, its definatly 4th as if the gearstick is in any other position everything binds up. the car was originally driving fine, it 1st happened when I was down changing from 4th to 3rd and then the front wheels locked up. Not a pleasant experience.
cheers
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by citronut</i>

how do you know its 4th it is going into,as i cant see how it can do this unless detent balls or springs missing,have you had car driving normaly,if so has any work been done on the car that may have caused this prob regards malcolm
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
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Post by Peter.N. »

I had something similar to this on a CX, the selector shaft in the box was turning but the fork was slipping, it would seem that the milling on the shaft/fork had let go. I managed to repair it by taking the top shaft bearing out which gave me just enough room to get a welding rod in and weld the fork to the shaft. Never had any trouble after that but I hope the chap that bought it didn't try and dismantle the gearbox! I hope this isn't your problem, I have just put it forward as a possibilty.
jeremy
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Post by jeremy »

I think we've had similar problems on here before (2 years ago?) - may be worth a thorough search but I'm not sure that thread reached a conclusion.
jeremy
ds2000
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Post by ds2000 »

Its a strange one. I know about the more common 'stuck in 5th or reverse' thing, but not 4th.
I've had a look for the previous thread but couldn't find anything. It might have started as something else.
The selector seems to move quite freely, but I've never seen an open gearbox in working order to compare it to.
Failing any miracle cures, it looks like its a dead box, any knowledge about how to change it defiantly appreciated.
Thanks for all the suggestions so far.
Niek
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Post by Niek »

I just did the clutch on my xm, couldn't get the gearbox out without removing something major like the whole engine or lowering the subframe...
Could be quite a big job, although I'm sure someone will come around to say that they have done it all in about 3 hours :(
jeremy
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Post by jeremy »

The fault is likely to be in the selector mechanism which is designed to interlock or provide some other foolproof way of preventing 2 gears engaging at the same time. Its probably some very small part that has worn or a small lump or other obstruction on one part which will prevent another moving when the first part is in a certain position.
I imagine that all these components are internal and not influenced by the external linkages.
Changeing the box will be the same job as changing the clutch which should be done at the same time.
Jeremy
ds2000
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Post by ds2000 »

As far as I'm aware, correct me if I'm wrong, but with the more common 'stuck in 5th gear, you cant select any other gears simultaneously, can you? Sounds like I'm going to go for a hat trick, I've got a DS engine, a GS engine and I'm about to have a XM engine all sitting on a bench.
I'll defiantly do the clutch as I've probably reduced its life expectancy greatly.
jeremy
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Post by jeremy »

How many gears you can select will depend where the fault is. If you are selecting 2 at once (total lock up) then the problem I would have thought was in the interlock mechanism as one bit that should be locked out of the way is moving and allowing a gear to be selected.
Reminds me of a friend who many years ago had a Daimler V8 250 auto. He was normally a sedate driver and one day going over a hump back bridge this thing decided to throw itself into park and came to a grinding halt. I saw what was left of the autobox - and it had split the casing from end to end along the top and everything inside too!
jeremy
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Post by crooser »

niek,can you really do the clutch on an xm without removing the gearbox? mine is a 2.5 diesel,is it possible on this model?
organic mechanic
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Post by organic mechanic »

Remove gearbox end cover. Check both nuts are tight and locked. Otherwise suggest collapsed bearing, low oil level causing partial seizure (Escort Diesels do a similar thing.'Box probabaly U/S by now anyway.
Niek
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Post by Niek »

crooser, you can and I did on a 2.0 16v. Actually you can't do it any other way without removing engine or lowering subframe. I'm not sure about the 2,5TD (actually I just bought one and am picking it up tomorrow!!) but considering the space you have in there it would be harder.
Get underneath it and check if you have the room to move the whole gearbox about 15cm to the side. I you can, you should be able to do it with the gearbox still in the car (that's how much space I had)
I'm sure someone on here must have done it and will be able to give more knowledgeable opinions (noz?)
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