Xantia bouncey suspension

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

User avatar
Mandrake
Posts: 8615
Joined: 10 Apr 2005, 17:23
Location: North Lanarkshire, UK
My Cars:
x 664

Post by Mandrake »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by alexx</i>

Saloons up to '96 had 35mm rear cylinders, like BX, GS etc. Newer models have 38mm cylinders (saloon) or 40mm (estate - not 41mm as I wrote in previous post)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Ok
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Front cylinders on older models are 22mm, but their stroke is equal to front suspension travel (about 14 cm). I believe that they are also a bit larger on post '96 models, but don't have info about that.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
When you say "older models" here I assume you're refering to older models with MacPherson struts, not models like GS and CX that have double wishbones as they most definately don't have piston travel that equals suspension travel [;)]
Regards,
Simon
alski
Posts: 6
Joined: 26 May 2005, 05:45
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars:

Post by alski »

Ok I did the check as suggested and it looks like the accumulator sphere is dead so I got a new one. I have tried to replace it but have been unable to get the old one off. I have tried with a strap wrench and a chain wrench which actually broke in use. I went through the procedure for de-pressurising the system correctly following previous info to the letter. Is there something I have missed?, Do I have to drain the fluid out of the system via the regulator bleed screw before I can remove the accumulator sphere?
With regard to the front suspension spheres, the only number I can find on them is a small 62 stamped into the metal.
Regards Al.
alexx
Posts: 462
Joined: 19 Nov 2002, 02:42
Location: Slovenia
My Cars:

Post by alexx »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
When you say "older models" here I assume you're refering to older models with MacPherson struts, not models like GS and CX that have double wishbones as they most definately don't have piston travel that equals suspension travel [;)]
Regards,
Simon
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Older Xantia models (up to '96), of course
GS had 35mm front and rear cylinders
User avatar
Mandrake
Posts: 8615
Joined: 10 Apr 2005, 17:23
Location: North Lanarkshire, UK
My Cars:
x 664

Post by Mandrake »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by alski</i>

Ok I did the check as suggested and it looks like the accumulator sphere is dead so I got a new one. I have tried to replace it but have been unable to get the old one off. I have tried with a strap wrench and a chain wrench which actually broke in use. I went through the procedure for de-pressurising the system correctly following previous info to the letter. Is there something I have missed?, Do I have to drain the fluid out of the system via the regulator bleed screw before I can remove the accumulator sphere?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Absolutely not. Don't drain any fluid [:D]
Just run the engine, set the suspension to down, wait a couple of minutes, turn the engine off, then turn the bleed screw on the side of the regulator a quater of a turn anti-clockwise, until it is loose. If the regulator sphere was ok at this point you would hear a squeal/hiss, but if it is dead you might hear nothing or just a little clonk.
Do NOT unscrew it completely, or it will fall out, along with the ball valve itself.
Note: it can be VERY difficult to get spheres off sometimes, for two reasons (a) previous person overtightening them (very common, unfortunately) and (b) rust on the faces.
I've found that its usually a two person job. When we took the accumulator sphere off my Dad's Xantia for the first time it was unbeliveably tight. We ended up using a large (truck sized) oil filter strap wrench, and two hammers - a small metalworking hammer and a block hammer - one person held continuous tension on the strap spanner, (from underneat the car - and USE RAMPS FOR SAFETY!) while the other person held the metalwork hammer against the side of the pressure regulator housing right near where the sphere is screwed on, and then hit the first hammer with the block hammer.
The shock from the hammer and the pressure from the strap was enough to break the rust bond.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
With regard to the front suspension spheres, the only number I can find on them is a small 62 stamped into the metal.
Regards Al.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Oh dear !! [:0]
If that number means 62 bars then you have found your problem.
(a) 62 bars is too high in pressure so it will make the springing a lot softer than it should be (should be 50 or 55 bars)
(b) the only 62 bar spheres I'm aware of are pressure regulator spheres, which have NO DAMPER VALVES! There are no 62 bar suspension spheres for any model that I'm aware of.
If those really are pressure regulator spheres your front suspension will have almost NO damping! Not only would that be unpleasant to drive, it would actually be DANGEROUS, it would be like driving a normal car with no shock absorbers fitted. (Well, not QUITE that bad, as hydraulics have a small amount of inherant damping, but still pretty bad)
That's appauling on the part of whoever has fitted them, (or who supplied you the wrong spheres if you fitted them yourself) if that is the case. You need to get them checked and replaced with the correct spheres ASAP. You can tell a regulator sphere from a suspension one easily - when you get your regulator sphere off you'll notice the neck is a hollow section about 20mm deep with a large hole, while a suspension sphere has that hollow section almost entirely filled in with what looks like a round plate, a large rivet and some washers, almost flush with the end of the thread. (This is the damper valve)
Regards,
Simon
RichardW
Forum Treasurer
Posts: 10812
Joined: 07 Aug 2002, 17:12
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars: MK2 '17 C4GP 1.6 BlueHDi 120
'13 3008 1.6 HDi GripControl
x 983

Post by RichardW »

To get the accumulator off, go in from underneath, and apply a sharp cold chisel persuaded with a lump hammer to the rim of the sphere. Go gently so it doesn't slip off and puncture the radiator. Might need 10 or 15 gentle blows, but it will come off.
alski
Posts: 6
Joined: 26 May 2005, 05:45
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars:

Post by alski »

Thanks for the info you guys, with a bigger strap wrench and some persistent persuasion with a lump hammer the accumulator sphere came off ok.
Simon you were spot on, I checked the spheres and they are most definitely accumulators. Suffice it to say I will be visiting the 'mechanic' who fitted them and give him them back,after which he will probably need surgery to get them removed if you get my drift.
I'll keep you posted with the result.
I,ll order two correct ones from GSF (great service same day delivery) and fit them myself it seems a safer option.
Thanks again
Al.
User avatar
Mandrake
Posts: 8615
Joined: 10 Apr 2005, 17:23
Location: North Lanarkshire, UK
My Cars:
x 664

Post by Mandrake »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by alski</i>

Thanks for the info you guys, with a bigger strap wrench and some persistent persuasion with a lump hammer the accumulator sphere came off ok.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Good news
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Simon you were spot on, I checked the spheres and they are most definitely accumulators. Suffice it to say I will be visiting the 'mechanic' who fitted them and give him them back,after which he will probably need surgery to get them removed if you get my drift.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
LOL [:D]
It's those kind of muck ups that can give Citroen's a bad name for being unreliable or troublesome, when more often than not its just lack of knowledge on the part of people making the mistakes, (sometimes dealers!!) not any design flaws of the cars or inherant unreliability...
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
I'll keep you posted with the result.
I,ll order two correct ones from GSF (great service same day delivery) and fit them myself it seems a safer option.
Thanks again
Al.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Ok, just be sure to fit them all properly to avoid leaks. Wipe a bit of LHM onto the new square section o-ring and fit it into the recess of the pressure regulator/suspension cylinder housing, (it will stay there while you screw the sphere on) don't slip it over the neck of the sphere or it will be sure to get pinched and leak.
Also don't use the strap spanner to tighten it. Over tightening is a common mistake. Firmly tight by two hands is plenty, and it wont leak if the seal was fitted correctly, as the application of high pressure when the system is pressurized tends to tighten the spheres over time and they always end up much tighter to get off than they were to put on. (EG there is no danger of them working loose)
Typically, tightening them hand tight will result in a sphere that can be undone with a strap spanner in the future (but not by hand) while tightening it with a strap spanner will result in a sphere that needs a lot of trouble with a chain wrench or a chisel and block hammer to get it undone [:D]
Regards,
Simon
Post Reply