R Reg Xantia TDi Intermittant starting problem

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jamesdoc
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R Reg Xantia TDi Intermittant starting problem

Post by jamesdoc »

Firstly.....This site looks like a blessing from god. Purchased company car as I knew it was well serviced and had all the history. Now its mine a problem has shown up. 6 times out of 10 car will start ok, other times wont start at all. Engine turns over ok and when running its fine although after a while tickover is a lumpy, a bit like having a dodgy spark plug or lead. Had the glow plugs changed and I thought that was it or so I was told.....Still the same. If i pump the fuel primer bulb sometimes it will start? coincidence mabye, i don't know. Could be trying for ages then all of a sudden starts sweet as a nut but with a plume of grey smoke from exhaust. Travelling to work is about 15 miles, drives great,park up.turn engine off, rmember I need something from superstore, turn key.....won't start.......Think I wanna cry. Any good idea's would be much Welcomed. Thanks
Mosser
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Post by Mosser »

Possibly and air leak either around the fuel filter housing, or the leak off pipes between the injectors, similar thing happend to a 406td i had and it was duff leak off pipes
jamesdoc
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Post by jamesdoc »

Should I just replace pipes to eliminate that possability. Was going to try citroen centre but my wallet is saying different.
jamesdoc
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Post by jamesdoc »

Oh and I'm not too much of a mechanic
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Post by jamesdoc »

going to bed now but keep posting please.....thanks
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Kowalski
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Post by Kowalski »

The leak off pipes are easy to replace, they pull off and the new ones push on. The leak off pipes are the short small diameter rubber (sometimes cloth/braid covered) pipes that go between the injectors. There is a "blank" at one end and that is prone to leaking too.
My Dad's Jeep Cherokee has the same injector pump and the same pipes and he was having starting problems that were caused by the leak off pipes.
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Post by Mosser »

Dont buy it from the dealers, you cna buy a length of leak off pipe which includes 2 blanking plugs for about 4 quid from halfords, just cut it to length yourself with a stanley knife or even scissors and its just a push fit on, no tools needed
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Post by ebod »

I did this job for the first time this weekend on my 98 Synergie. Previously it always started okay but was lumpy/rough and a bit smokey for say 30 seconds. One recent morning prior to startup I checked the primer handpump and it was soft.
After I put these new bits of £4 quid pipe on it now starts very smoothly and smoke free. I assume the rough running was the delay in the fuel system getting up to pressure due to air in the return lines.
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Post by Mosser »

Nope, the rough running was acutally air bubbles going through the HP pump and through the injectors, effectlvely momentarily starving the engine of its fuel which is why it stutters and runs rough till the air bubbles have gone,
You could fit a clear bit of fuel pipe for the last run to the HP pump and look for air bubbles in it if you wanted to fault find it
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Kowalski
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Post by Kowalski »

The injector pump on the Xantia is self bleeding, it DOESN'T pump air through the metal pipes to the injectors, if it did you'd have to crack open the injector pipes to bleed them like on an older diesel. I've had to do that on an International 434 and a JCB 3CII, both with an earlier Lucas fuel pump.
Mosser
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Post by Mosser »

Oh, thats odd because when i was having problems with my 406 td, rough running because i changed the leak off pipes, it still ran rough with new ones on, and i cured it by cracking the injector nuts slightly, turned out that it was no3 cylinder that had the air as it settled down without me needing t do no4 injector
I thought the xantia and pugeot diesel engines were the same ?
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Kowalski
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Post by Kowalski »

They are the same engine, although they can come with different fuel pumps (i.e. Lucas/Roto Diesel and Bosch).
When the injector pipes get full of air the engine will not run at all. The injector pump produces a limited volume of fuel on each injection, if the injector pipes are full of air this limited volume of fuel is not enough to compress the air so that the pressure gets high enough to open the injectors. Therefore, the engine will not run and NO amount of turning it over will get the pump to bleed the injector pipes.
With an older Lucas pump (e.g. that fitted to the tractor and JCB I mentioned above) when you get air in the system it ends up in the injector pipes and the engine doesn't just run roughly, it stops dead and you have to get the spanners out to bleed the injectors. With the Bosch pump it will self bleed given time because it doesn't fill the injector pipes with air.
I have got covered in diesel many times bleeding diesel injectors and injector pumps because of air leaks or running out of fuel but never on the Xantia. One of the things I like about the Xantia is that if you run out of fuel or get an air leak there is no messy bleeding to do. When I replaced the fuel hoses on the older Xantia, there was no bleeding to do apart from pumping the bulb, and the same is true when changing the fuel filter.
jamesdoc
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Post by jamesdoc »

Thanks a million guys.....Will have a go at what you say and pray that will sort the problem out. Cheers.
PS...will let you know how i get on.
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Post by jamesdoc »

is there an easy way to find out if I have air in the fuel lines as there seems to be an overall thought in thats what it is.
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Post by jamesdoc »

I have now came to an end of this problem and car now seems to be repaired. Decided to check what voltage I had on glowplugs and when it was in the no start mode found voltage....NIL..hmm. So took a direct jump from the battery to glowplugs and car started right away. Tracing it back ,I found that the relay concerned was bolted to inner wing. Checked and found corrosion. Wire brush required to cleanup ,re-connect, problem solved. Once again thanks.
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