Xantia XUTD Tuning - Effects

Chrispy · Post by **Chrispy** » 05 May 2005, 20:51

I know this has been asked many, many times, but I'm not so much interested in how it's done, more how it feels afterwards.
I'll be taking mine to Gav @ the Derv Doctor next month to get it adjusted up from 90 to about 115bhp. I'm curious as to how much better it'll feel with the power hike, and whether it'll kill my economy or not.
I've driven a HDi Xantia with a Powerstick fitted and that simply revved a lot better, something the standard HDi's don't do, but it didn't shove you into your seat any harder. It felt more flexible that's all.
Does the mechanical tune feel the same or is it much more of a kick in the back with the extra torque rather than revvy-ness?
Cheers,
Chris.

shezads · Post by **shezads** » 05 May 2005, 21:31

I'll be getting my zx done soon, and my brothers 306 too - maybe he'll give us a bit of a discount!
I have heard that generally - pulls better - especially when off turbo. It pulls for longer in the rev range. So - makes it more flexible - but have read that fifth is stronger - boost is adjusted as well as the adjusting the fueling.

oilyspanner · Post by **oilyspanner** » 05 May 2005, 22:37

I am in the process of raising the boost levels on my BX 19 TD, I recently changed the turbo from a KK to a Garrett type (mainly because I was given a nearly new Garrett and because I can control boost by a boost control in line between the actuator and the turbo rather than getting under the car to adjust the boost) the original turbo gave me 13 psi max, the newer on 15psi,I have a Bosch fuel pump I have initially moved the Boost compensator 180 degrees clockwise and the max fuel 25degrees clockwise to allow for the 2 psi increase.
Initial impressions are good, the boost is being produced at lower engine speeds, acceleration is brisk to say the least and the engine is pulling more strongly, the car climbs hills more easily and is often one gear higher than it used to be, I will continue to increase boost and fuelling untol I am getting 16psi as I hope to strike a balance between preformance and reliability, well worth the effort but I would not want to pay anyone to perform such a relatively simple task for me ,then again I am particularly mean and even used to change my own tyres[:D][:D])
Stewart

rossd · Post by **rossd** » 05 May 2005, 23:12

When I did my XUD 306, it made it certainly made it rev better past 3700 rpm or so, but the big increase was in the amount of torque. Put your foot down and in any gear at anything over 2000 you were thrust backwards. 4th gear from about 40mph was the best for overtaking, I think I timed 40 - 60 in 4th to be about 4.5 or so seconds.
It made the engine feel smoother, it wasnt, but the huge amounts of torque meant you never had to rev it to make real progress.
I know have a 306 HDi and waiting in anticipation for Monday, when it is being remapped....

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 06 May 2005, 00:23

i have got none turbo bx 19D, when head gasket went year or two ago i got my workshop landlord who work heads for a living to gas flow it whilst it was of.When i refited it quite a differants in how it go,more responsive,smoother power all through rev range,and where most citroens do not like 30MPH around town in 4th, mine now drives soothly at 30MPH IN 4th regards malcolm ps if you woul like phone No for gain speed st leonards on sea east sussex let me know

np · Post by np » 06 May 2005, 00:37

I had mine done nearly 3 yrs ago now at about 110k.Before,it went ok,but there was nothing really below 2-2200 rpm when the turbo kicked in.It ran out of puff at about 4k rpm.Wouldn`t pull our caravan over 50mph on the motorway.It was also slow to rev.
Afterwards,it pulls from 1000rpm in 5th!Really pulling hard from 1700 rpm.It now runs out of puff at 4800 rpm(1,2,3,& 4th gear to 4800rpm no probs)Revs rise & fall very quickly,Pulls the caravan at 60 mph no probs,had 80mph with the van on the back in France!(their limit for caravans)Pulls through the gears great now.Still returns an average 40-45mpg.
Mine has 115 bhp,185 lbft of torque.Has had no ill effects on the car/engine at all.
My Dad has a 406 HDI 110 est.Thats even better through the gears than mine,but i `spose its just a newer better engine.

Chrispy · Post by **Chrispy** » 08 May 2005, 02:39

Right, decision made, I'm getting the bugger tuned! I hope the Derv Doctor chap does Saturdays... The car could definitely do with some extra poke. It doesn't rev very freely in typical mech diesel fashion and lacks any real punch when the turbo is spinning. Mind you, I am used to driving petrols and it ain't no Pumpe Duse either.
My missus has just picked up a W reg 306 HDi today so I'll be on the lookout for a Powerstick for that too now. Not sure if anyone knows where I can pick these up?

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 08 May 2005, 03:56

Boosting your XUD shortens the head gasket life, its one of those hidden costs.
You'll know if you've had it tuned too much because the head gasket will die pretty quickly.

Chrispy · Post by **Chrispy** » 08 May 2005, 17:31

So what is a realistic figure? I'm not after masses of power to be honest, just to make it feel a bit more brisk. 90bhp in a car this heavy simply doesn't cut it for me.
Gav at the Derv Doctor reckins the head gasket will be fine after tuning. I imagine he doesn't push it that far if that's the case.
TBH another reasin for head gasket failures on a lot of cars is down to people not flushing their coolant frequently enough. Old coolant eats head gaskets as it's ionised and reacts with the alloy gasket. It MUST be changed at least every 2 years....more often if you do high mileage. Coming from an E36 BMW 6 pot I know this. Luckliy it didn't happen to me as I was diligent in changing the water pump and coolant etc, but it has happened to many others.

oilyspanner · Post by **oilyspanner** » 08 May 2005, 18:15

I have not had my car near a dyno but did follow a tuning guide (email me if you need a copy) and believe my car is only slightly tweaked at 15 PSI maximum boost with fuelling only turned up in the first stage of the very small increments suggested in the guide.
The difference in performance is very noticeable indeed, much more midrange power,the boost is climbing earlier, throttle response is crisper and acceleration much more rapid, taking note of the increased strain on components I tend not to hammer the car through the gears but rather to rely on the torque rather than high RPMs, I can imagine it might be easy to overdo things but provided the motor is healthy to begin with then go for it![:D][:D][:D]
Stewart
Suggest you start by fitting a boost gauge, read the tuning guide and wonder whether its worth paying anyone £100 to do it, though of course you could always pay me[;)]

rossd · Post by **rossd** » 09 May 2005, 12:53

I wouldnt get a powerstick on an HDi, it tricks the ECU into raising the fuel pressure. This causes increased wear on the high pressure pump and the high pressure side of the system has been known to leak. A remap (chip) is a much better option as usually the fuel pressure stays the same. Also the powerstick causes more smoke than a proper remap.

macaroni · Post by **macaroni** » 09 May 2005, 14:13

Derv Doctor can supply Powersticks or exceute a full remap.

Chrispy · Post by **Chrispy** » 09 May 2005, 15:56

Is the price about the same between the remap and the powerstick?
As for doing the tuning myself, I doubt I'd have the guts. I chipped my old BM myself but that was easy...just pull the ECU apart and replace the chip. I daren't start fiddling with screws and boost pressure on a weasel myself. I'm bound to cock it up!

drpau · Post by **drpau** » 09 May 2005, 19:10

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by rossd</i>

I wouldnt get a powerstick on an HDi, it tricks the ECU into raising the fuel pressure. This causes increased wear on the high pressure pump and the high pressure side of the system has been known to leak. A remap (chip) is a much better option as usually the fuel pressure stays the same. Also the powerstick causes more smoke than a proper remap.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
How can the fuel pressure stay the same (ish) if you are (which I believe you are) increasing the fuelling by doing a remap? Or does it just alter WHEN the fuel is added rather than increasing it?
Obviously, there is no doubt that a remap is going to be much better than one of these plug in powerstick things though...
Cheers
Paul

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 09 May 2005, 19:15

A remap opens the injectors at different times, where as the powerstick tries to get more fuel through the injectors without adjusting their timing. The result is that with a remap the ECU is in control of fueling where as with the powerstick, the ECU doesn't realise that its putting more fuel into the engine than it thinks it is, hence more smoke.