Had a word with a mobile aircon guy today, regards my noisy-leaking-breaking-up compressor. It's got green gunk underneath it I assumed was the refridgerant. I'm told it's actually oil integral to the compressor, and if it's leaked out, it's beyond repair. I'm also told a seperate magnetic clutch may cost up to £200, the price of a full compressor even more, although more economical to get the one unit.
Am I being ripped off here, or does this sound about right? I can't believe this simple thing will end up costing far more than a recent clutch replacement!
If there's anyone with a replacement compressor, or in any way able to help me near to Leeds or Bristol, that'd be wonderfull too
(Xantia 1.9TD 1997)
Your green gunk could be LHM, the hydraulic pump is above the air con compressor and could be leaking.
I know that the pipes coming out of my air con compressor are coated in LHM grime but I don't have a noticable leak.
Past cars Activa, silver MK1 (221bhp stock) stripped out with twin sparcos Evo seats. 95 Activa, light met red MK1 98 Activa, dark met red MK1 98 Activa, dark met blue MK1 (202bhp stock) 96 Xantia exclusive V6 auto 3l 98 Xantia 2l 8v auto BX 4x4 GTi dark met silver BX 4x4 GTi white BX GTi 16v white fibre bumpers BX GTi 16v black fibre bumpers BX GTi 16v hurricane (doa) BX DTR estate
I'm in redditch worcestershire I have a spair compreser (or 3).
Check the botom of the altenator for the green stuff to if its there also it is an LHM leak, because of the setup of the 1.9/2.1 hydro and altenator mount the fluid has to leek on to the altenator first.
Give me a shout if you need any help or are close by for any reason.
Andy
The green gunk you are seeing may be LHM, it could also be a tracer dye from the system. This is the lazy mans way of detecting leaks.
When I was in the trade we used a leak detector to find them and if all else failed we then resorted to using tracer dyes which these days seems more the norm than the exception. The problem is that as it is a lazy way of doing things, they compound the laziness by almost expecting the leak to come looking for them and often don't expose enough of the system to detect the leak even if the tracer dye is coming out. The end result can be (as I recently found on one of my sons cars) that there was almost no oil but heaps of tracer in the system which in itself can cause damage due to lack of lubricant.
If you decide to go with another compressor, just be sure to get one identical with the current one.
The brand should be Sanden, the model will be something like a SD709 (an R-12 compressor) or it's equivalent in a R134a compressor will be a SD7H15.
You will also need to check on locations for attachements of suction and discharge lines.
The air/con guy could be correct on the diagnosis being that the compressor is irrepairable, but be sure that whatever is bought to replace it has been thoroughly sealed and also be sure a new receiver/dryer is fitted upon reinstallation.
Alan S
Thanks for the replies.
I don't *think* it's LHM - the pump looks clean and tidy, but will double-check. The only LHM leak I've had was the antisink valve, which was quickly replaced.
I had assumed the refridgerant itself was green. After having it recharged last year, there was lots of green fluid bubbling through the little inspection window. I'm not too au fait with how the whole thing works or what the bits are So not too sure what the receiver/dryer is, or what else that's going to set me back.
Past cars Activa, silver MK1 (221bhp stock) stripped out with twin sparcos Evo seats. 95 Activa, light met red MK1 98 Activa, dark met red MK1 98 Activa, dark met blue MK1 (202bhp stock) 96 Xantia exclusive V6 auto 3l 98 Xantia 2l 8v auto BX 4x4 GTi dark met silver BX 4x4 GTi white BX GTi 16v white fibre bumpers BX GTi 16v black fibre bumpers BX GTi 16v hurricane (doa) BX DTR estate
Ok this is something I’m learning about at the moment too. The basic’s of it are the second you open the system you have to replace the dryer as it is open to air/moisture at that time. the pump may need replacing and I defiantly have one you can have for a lot less than £200, if you give me your model number I would think I have the exact one here (I’ve got one off a V6, 1.9 TD, 2.1 TD and a 2L turbo and to be honest they all look the same with the same fitments)...
The dryer is a service part so there about £40 if you order one give me a shout I need one too as I’ve separated my system to fit the 2.1 TD engine with any luck we can get a deal on 2. You will also need to get it regasses after the new pump and dryer is fitted.
Andy
As a followup whatever the green stuff is, the alternator looks sparkling clean all over, while the bottom of the compressor is coated in what I can only describe as a very thin layer of bright green algae (just like new total LHM). Switching the aircon on doesn't seem to enagage the clutch at all, perhaps it's only this that's failed, there's no play in the wheel so I assume bearings must be fine.
And I've just realised - seems both radiator fans are supposed to come on with aircon switch on.
They probably never have in the six months I've had the car.
This must surely have some bearing on something...
Past cars Activa, silver MK1 (221bhp stock) stripped out with twin sparcos Evo seats. 95 Activa, light met red MK1 98 Activa, dark met red MK1 98 Activa, dark met blue MK1 (202bhp stock) 96 Xantia exclusive V6 auto 3l 98 Xantia 2l 8v auto BX 4x4 GTi dark met silver BX 4x4 GTi white BX GTi 16v white fibre bumpers BX GTi 16v black fibre bumpers BX GTi 16v hurricane (doa) BX DTR estate
To my knowlage the fans only come on if the tripple preasure switch is triped (i believe this is if the presure in the systems gets to hi?). Under normal use the fans should be off (other whise all my cars have a problem! and with 4 of them thats going to be expensive!).
Hmm, that's contrary to other posts I've found explaining how it works. (This post is ending up touching on my other thread!).
This seems to be the same as the Xantia too: http://www.peugeotlogic.com/workshop/base/workshop.htm
(click electrical > 306 cooling fan priciples)
The Haynes schematics completely omits the bitron system, but the relay wiring is the same as the bitron 306, achieving the same function via the radiator switch. Basically, when aircon is on or engine is too hot, both fans come on in series, switched by one fan relay. If criticality is reached - such as on my little jaunt up the lakes - two additional relays switch them both to full 12v direct. I can't really find a common point of failure for both fans in the non-bitron system, which is probably more worrying than not.
I am, however, perplexed by what or where the 'Supply Box' is. There's a fuse in here, F3, which supplies the relay energising coil when the fans are in series. Without this, both fans would fail. It isn't the engine fusebox, I don't know where this elusive fuse is.
Past cars Activa, silver MK1 (221bhp stock) stripped out with twin sparcos Evo seats. 95 Activa, light met red MK1 98 Activa, dark met red MK1 98 Activa, dark met blue MK1 (202bhp stock) 96 Xantia exclusive V6 auto 3l 98 Xantia 2l 8v auto BX 4x4 GTi dark met silver BX 4x4 GTi white BX GTi 16v white fibre bumpers BX GTi 16v black fibre bumpers BX GTi 16v hurricane (doa) BX DTR estate
ok you should note that depending on the car the wiring is fairly diferent (i have all the wiring diagrams for all ECU's and AC systems and there good enough to go down to every single wire code.
F3 isnt one that is used in a 1997 1.9TD you have the following fuses
Fe, Ff, F2, F5, F12, F14, F19, F20
The diagram is pretty large if I can get a PDF writer working I can give you a copy of it.
I've checked these diagrams as I've needed them my self and they are 100% acurate and very useful
Andy
I think a lot of your questions might be answered if you went for a wander through our air/con forum at the top, but I'll try to answer as quickly and simply as I can on here.
The fans not operating are more likely than not associated with the mechanical side of the operation rather than the electrical. If the green fluid is in fact tracer dye, then that's why the fans and compressor aren't operating; I'll explain why below.
The receiver/dryer is the black cylinder that has the sight glass on top; the one they go looking at for bubbles. No bubbles can mean a few things; it's got enough gas, it's got no gas or the compressor isn't pumping so looking at that in this case may not tell you anything.
On top of the receiver/dryer is a switch with 4 wires coming out of it. This will most likely be the culprit in preventing the fans from running on the car when the air/con is switched on. This switch serves two functions and is referred to as a HP/LP safety switch.
HP. If for any reason the system becomes over pressurised on the high pressure/discharge side due to overheating of the condensor or a blockage on the discharge side of the compressor, this will activate this swwitch once a certain pressure is reached. This will cut power to the cluch on the compressor and set the fans off at full speed. Once the pressure drops, it returns to normal (ie) fans operating at normal speed and compressor cycling.
LP. Should the system lose it's gas charge, this will activate when the pressure drops below a certain value and will disconnect power to the system to prevent damage to the system which would otherwise be caused by allowing air and contaminents to enter the system once the compressor went into vacuum. In effect, the compressor is capable of destroying itself and causing major damage to the system without this switch included in the operation.
With the ignition switched on and the air/con switch on, a piece of wire used to bridge the wires leading to the switch should cause an audible click when the correct two are bridged out and the clutch engaged.
As I said in the previous post, all the tracer dye in the world will not cure the leak and if it is coming from the front of the compressor, then there's every possibility that the leak is from a collapsed crankshaft seal. These are replaceable but I wouldn't hazard a guess on cost. The main thing is that <b>all leaks are found.</b>
This is best achieved by exposing as much of the system as is humanly possible. By that I mean T/X valve and as much of the evaporator coil as can be reasonably accessed. On the BX, removing the glovebox gives good access to the coverplate for the T/X and so makes it as easy to get to as is necessary in most cases. Xantia, I can't speculate on but doubtless someone here will know.
If you do go looking for leaks or as preventitive maintenance, check the colour of all the "O" rings fitted in the fittings. If they are black, they are rubber, will have a dubious future and will also be of dubious quality to seal against R134a. Green neoprene "O" rings are essential for 134a. This is due to the oil used in 134a systems as opposed to the old R12 systems; mineral against veggy oil as with LHM systems are resistent to one but not the other. Same applies to the model of compressor. I quoted the two models above, one 12 the other 134. Materials in these vary also which is why it is adviseable to go for the 134 compatable compressor as whilst the R12 will work, it's life expectancy is reduced due to this issue.
It may sound as though I'm talking overkill, but these systems must be spotless and there is no room for error when working on them. My sons car had such rough work on it that in one instance, I found the "O" ring had been totally forgotten to be installed. This was inside the coil area where the guys working on it had put getting in there in teh "too hard" basket and the reason why I say <b>you</b> as the owner must get access to it and preferrably replace the "O" rings to play it safe in case you find the compressor seal was a by product of another leak.
The receiver dryer should be able to be bought from places other than Citroen dealers as they are a common part. Get a number off the top pf it (usually on a green sticker) and phone around. I think mine was A$65.
See how you go with that, but I think you'll find the loss of gas is your main problem. Fix that & I think you'll see the rest will automatically come right but at least now you should be able to troubleshoot it.
Alan S
Past cars Activa, silver MK1 (221bhp stock) stripped out with twin sparcos Evo seats. 95 Activa, light met red MK1 98 Activa, dark met red MK1 98 Activa, dark met blue MK1 (202bhp stock) 96 Xantia exclusive V6 auto 3l 98 Xantia 2l 8v auto BX 4x4 GTi dark met silver BX 4x4 GTi white BX GTi 16v white fibre bumpers BX GTi 16v black fibre bumpers BX GTi 16v hurricane (doa) BX DTR estate
the location for the ac controler is in the dash (pass side) as is the temprature control modual. in the bay some ware near the ABS system is the "Air conditioning condenser blower motor control modual"
Fuse F3 should you need it is in the dash fusebox and controls the: alarm horn, alarm, HA system and the dipped heat lights.
Andy
Alan/Jon can you move this whole topic to the aircon forum now? thanks!
