Just seen this:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... RK:MEWA:IT
On ebay. I have wanted one of these since I could drive. It looks reasonable. What does anyone else think? and how much would it be realistically worth?
David.
Value of CX 25 DTR turbo 2
Moderator: RichardW
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fastandfurryous
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ActivaV6uk
- Posts: 650
- Joined: 20 Nov 2003, 16:51
- Location: United Kingdom
- My Cars: C5 X7 2.7 hdi
Past cars
Activa, silver MK1 (221bhp stock) stripped out with twin sparcos Evo seats. 95
Activa, light met red MK1 98
Activa, dark met red MK1 98
Activa, dark met blue MK1 (202bhp stock) 96
Xantia exclusive V6 auto 3l 98
Xantia 2l 8v auto
BX 4x4 GTi dark met silver
BX 4x4 GTi white
BX GTi 16v white fibre bumpers
BX GTi 16v black fibre bumpers
BX GTi 16v hurricane (doa)
BX DTR estate
Having owned & driven a (the same one) CX myself for 10 years - I'm pretty familiar with just about any type of problem on these cars.
The major problem : rust [B)] - especially in the rear subframe - the rear wheel arches - the boot floor - the front footwell floor both sides - battery carriage in engine bay and same location opposite side. Any sunroof will have set on rust badly in surrounding area.
Lift all carpeting to get an overview of how bad it is.
As opposed to the BX - the CX never came with galvanised parts of the chassis.
Other problems with the CX are wellknown from the BX : rear arm bearings, rusty hyd lines, perished rubber return lines, electric gremlins etc.
The CX does not have the large BX rubber return hose complex - known as the Octopus. You can get away with separate hose replacement in the long term as you find them perished.
The hyd system is - apart from the Diravi servo - exactly the same as on the BX.
CX engines in general seems to be sturdy workhorses - designed for steady long journey performance rather than boyracer street performance.
Unless you are prepared for serious DIY on a CX - it will cost you a fortune to repair - and maintain roadworthy. Especially the drivetrain and front suspension calls for patience and DIY skills.
This also largely reflects the price of the CX. In my opinion any CX - unless immaculate condition - should be even cheaper than a matching BX yearmodel.
The major problem : rust [B)] - especially in the rear subframe - the rear wheel arches - the boot floor - the front footwell floor both sides - battery carriage in engine bay and same location opposite side. Any sunroof will have set on rust badly in surrounding area.
Lift all carpeting to get an overview of how bad it is.
As opposed to the BX - the CX never came with galvanised parts of the chassis.
Other problems with the CX are wellknown from the BX : rear arm bearings, rusty hyd lines, perished rubber return lines, electric gremlins etc.
The CX does not have the large BX rubber return hose complex - known as the Octopus. You can get away with separate hose replacement in the long term as you find them perished.
The hyd system is - apart from the Diravi servo - exactly the same as on the BX.
CX engines in general seems to be sturdy workhorses - designed for steady long journey performance rather than boyracer street performance.
Unless you are prepared for serious DIY on a CX - it will cost you a fortune to repair - and maintain roadworthy. Especially the drivetrain and front suspension calls for patience and DIY skills.
This also largely reflects the price of the CX. In my opinion any CX - unless immaculate condition - should be even cheaper than a matching BX yearmodel.
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Thunderbird
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fastandfurryous
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I am quite happy with working on vehicles: I've never taken a car to a garage in my life. (No, sorry, not true. I did once, and they tried to scam me. Bunch of ar*eholes!). I've had plenty of engines down to their component pieces, and am in the middle of rebuilding a Landrover onto a new chassis, and in my last job I was a Hydraulic Development Engineer, so working out the hydraulics of a citroen, especially a non-hydractive one, doesn't concern me too much.
My main concern was what would be a good price for this car, as I know very little about their value, and don't want to pay over the odds, especially if there is something obviously glaringly wrong with it, that I miss because I don't have enough (any!) experience of Citroens.
Interesting the comments about a similar-model CX being cheaper than a BX. In that case I should think this car shoudn't make more than about £150? After all, with barely minutes to run on the MOT, it has to be looked at like a car without one.
Personally I just love the way a CX looks, how they drive, and the overall eccentricity of them.
My main concern was what would be a good price for this car, as I know very little about their value, and don't want to pay over the odds, especially if there is something obviously glaringly wrong with it, that I miss because I don't have enough (any!) experience of Citroens.
Interesting the comments about a similar-model CX being cheaper than a BX. In that case I should think this car shoudn't make more than about £150? After all, with barely minutes to run on the MOT, it has to be looked at like a car without one.
Personally I just love the way a CX looks, how they drive, and the overall eccentricity of them.
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Stinkwheel
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I've owned 9 CX's, 7 of which I've used properly on the road (other 2 breakers) I love 'em. Unfortunatly In this time im my life they do not suit my day to day needs but i can honestly say I only ever need one of 2 cars a 2CV (or variant) and a CX.
They are a joy, they ride and handle exactly as i want, the estates or familiale will swallow all you can load in and the saloons are just so very good to look at. Repairs and maintenance can be costly on a bad one, a good one can cost you almost nothing to run. At this time in their life Rust and electrical faults are your real enemies.
In my opinion the petrol turbo is the car to have but all engine varients have plus points.
Buy it, you will not regret it, if you dont like i will buy it off you
They are a joy, they ride and handle exactly as i want, the estates or familiale will swallow all you can load in and the saloons are just so very good to look at. Repairs and maintenance can be costly on a bad one, a good one can cost you almost nothing to run. At this time in their life Rust and electrical faults are your real enemies.
In my opinion the petrol turbo is the car to have but all engine varients have plus points.
Buy it, you will not regret it, if you dont like i will buy it off you
Why not drop Tom Sheppherd a line and ask him?
He bought a CX recently so should have some idea of market prices.
I've owned several CXs, no turbos or diesels mind you (never imported into here) and they are a mighty cat and a ton of fun.
Drivers in later plastic cars don't tend to harrasss you either.[}:)][;)]
Alan S
He bought a CX recently so should have some idea of market prices.
I've owned several CXs, no turbos or diesels mind you (never imported into here) and they are a mighty cat and a ton of fun.
Drivers in later plastic cars don't tend to harrasss you either.[}:)][;)]
Alan S
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DoubleChevron
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Yeah Tom Shepard is your man,
you see us CX enthusiests will NOT here a bad word said about the cars. The particular car I would buy in a heartbeat.... Only getting it to Australia would be really interesting [:(]
As a usable everyday car the CX Turbo II deisel wagon would have to be the best CX ever made. It's a huge wagon with masses of storage space, fuel economy and power from the Turbo Deisel (which I have lots of parts for ..... But no car to suit the part [:(] ).
Sure the CX petrol Turbo will be hugely faster, but it'll use a lot more petrol and was never sold in station wagon form (which is far more usable).
That car in the pictures looks amazingly rust free on the outside, however my extremely limited experiance with UK cars shows the rust 'underneath' where you can't see it. Out here they rust in the bodywork where it's plainly visible to all, however it's extremely rare (nigh unheard of) for one to have hidden rust under the car.
The wagons are a much cooler car to drive than the CX sedan, ventilation is about the only bad point I'll admit to with any CX.
BTW: Why do you guys keep saying CX's are expensive to repair the suspension and drivetrain on ........ It's near bloody indistructable. Just throw a few ball joints at it's front end every couple of hundred thousand kms and don't worry about it. The motor and gearbox will probably outlive you (as will the driveshafts).
seeya,
Shane L.
you see us CX enthusiests will NOT here a bad word said about the cars. The particular car I would buy in a heartbeat.... Only getting it to Australia would be really interesting [:(]
As a usable everyday car the CX Turbo II deisel wagon would have to be the best CX ever made. It's a huge wagon with masses of storage space, fuel economy and power from the Turbo Deisel (which I have lots of parts for ..... But no car to suit the part [:(] ).
Sure the CX petrol Turbo will be hugely faster, but it'll use a lot more petrol and was never sold in station wagon form (which is far more usable).
That car in the pictures looks amazingly rust free on the outside, however my extremely limited experiance with UK cars shows the rust 'underneath' where you can't see it. Out here they rust in the bodywork where it's plainly visible to all, however it's extremely rare (nigh unheard of) for one to have hidden rust under the car.
The wagons are a much cooler car to drive than the CX sedan, ventilation is about the only bad point I'll admit to with any CX.
BTW: Why do you guys keep saying CX's are expensive to repair the suspension and drivetrain on ........ It's near bloody indistructable. Just throw a few ball joints at it's front end every couple of hundred thousand kms and don't worry about it. The motor and gearbox will probably outlive you (as will the driveshafts).
seeya,
Shane L.
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fastandfurryous
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- x 4
It does have the conventional instruments, but finding an early Turbodiesel estate in good condition with the ultra-bonkers dash will be hard work, and undoubtedly be priced accordingly (as much as I'd like one)
My main concern with this car is are there any jobs which absolutely cannot be done without specialist tools? I'm thinking along the lines of the 405 with "integral" ABS systems that prevent you from doing anything that involves re-bleeding the brakes, as it cannot be done by conventional means, and HAS to be done by a dealer (or someone with the correct kit)
Porosity in the block is indeeed a concern, but didn't that ususally show up in the first few years of use? I know some XUD engines suffered from porus blocks too (I remember seeing a 306 at a dealer with that problem) but it either appeared in the first year or so, or wasn't a problem.
The engine isn't too much of a worry anyway, as bizzarely, I have the same model of diesel (NA) in my Talbot Express van. I had the head off it recently, and it's quite a nice engine to work on by the looks of things. Somewhat unconventional in it's auxilliary drive system, but it certainly didn't hold any nasty surprises.
But can I really have ANOTHER vehicle here? I already have 6!
My main concern with this car is are there any jobs which absolutely cannot be done without specialist tools? I'm thinking along the lines of the 405 with "integral" ABS systems that prevent you from doing anything that involves re-bleeding the brakes, as it cannot be done by conventional means, and HAS to be done by a dealer (or someone with the correct kit)
Porosity in the block is indeeed a concern, but didn't that ususally show up in the first few years of use? I know some XUD engines suffered from porus blocks too (I remember seeing a 306 at a dealer with that problem) but it either appeared in the first year or so, or wasn't a problem.
The engine isn't too much of a worry anyway, as bizzarely, I have the same model of diesel (NA) in my Talbot Express van. I had the head off it recently, and it's quite a nice engine to work on by the looks of things. Somewhat unconventional in it's auxilliary drive system, but it certainly didn't hold any nasty surprises.
But can I really have ANOTHER vehicle here? I already have 6!
You might run into trouble with the upper sviwel joint in the CX upper front suspension arm.
This balljoint is a pressfit - using a 6T press. Usually it requires quite a bit more to press out again. But heat helps a long way.
As usual on Hyd Citroens the handbrake works on the front wheels. But the CX handbrake design is pretty unusual - and pretty worthless. Takes some 3Kmiles for a re-adjustment to ensure any function at all.
Unless you really got the taste for it - I doubt you will need any major engine work. The engine itself is really a sturdy long lasting lump.
The problems you may run into are mysterious electric gremlins in the engine management system - caused by hopeless wiring layout and bad connector quality.
Try ask DoubleChevron (Shane) [8D] http://www.aussiefrogs.com/shane/
Apart from that - the CX is really enjoing to own and drive.
You can NEVER get too many Citroens [:p]
This balljoint is a pressfit - using a 6T press. Usually it requires quite a bit more to press out again. But heat helps a long way.
As usual on Hyd Citroens the handbrake works on the front wheels. But the CX handbrake design is pretty unusual - and pretty worthless. Takes some 3Kmiles for a re-adjustment to ensure any function at all.
Unless you really got the taste for it - I doubt you will need any major engine work. The engine itself is really a sturdy long lasting lump.
The problems you may run into are mysterious electric gremlins in the engine management system - caused by hopeless wiring layout and bad connector quality.
Try ask DoubleChevron (Shane) [8D] http://www.aussiefrogs.com/shane/
Apart from that - the CX is really enjoing to own and drive.
You can NEVER get too many Citroens [:p]
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DoubleChevron
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Put it this way.
I wouldn't swap my CX for any cr@ppy BX ..... No matter how good the BX was.
The front suspension can be done without special tools ..... I know 'cos I've done it. However it is a lot simpler if you make yourself a few (very simply made) pullers.
The top balljoints press out quite easily if you own a 12ton press and have a section of tube to press into (well they do on aussie cars, my CX GTi Turbo took everybit of the 12tons to move). The upside of this is you simply don't install the top balljoint yourself (unless you have the tools). Anyone that sells the top ball joints will usually have the ability to fit it for you (at a very cheap price ...).
I know the front end of my BX will have a lot of wear in it too, I'm sure it'll be no more easy/difficult than the CX if I was to re-build it.
I agree with Anders the electrical system on the CX is a nightmare. Once sorted it should be fine though. Only cars that live in the UK with it's salted roads should really have any major issues with the the wiring connectors (as will **any** other 20year old car over there). The deisel should have many less issue as they don't require all the injection/ignition harnesses/connections/computers.
Go for it !!!!!!!! You only live once, you might as well enjoy life. I sure as hell enjoy every second driving my CX, though I do question my own sanity as the mercury in the thermometer climbs of 30degrees C.
seeya,
Shane L.
I wouldn't swap my CX for any cr@ppy BX ..... No matter how good the BX was.
The front suspension can be done without special tools ..... I know 'cos I've done it. However it is a lot simpler if you make yourself a few (very simply made) pullers.
The top balljoints press out quite easily if you own a 12ton press and have a section of tube to press into (well they do on aussie cars, my CX GTi Turbo took everybit of the 12tons to move). The upside of this is you simply don't install the top balljoint yourself (unless you have the tools). Anyone that sells the top ball joints will usually have the ability to fit it for you (at a very cheap price ...).
I know the front end of my BX will have a lot of wear in it too, I'm sure it'll be no more easy/difficult than the CX if I was to re-build it.
I agree with Anders the electrical system on the CX is a nightmare. Once sorted it should be fine though. Only cars that live in the UK with it's salted roads should really have any major issues with the the wiring connectors (as will **any** other 20year old car over there). The deisel should have many less issue as they don't require all the injection/ignition harnesses/connections/computers.
Go for it !!!!!!!! You only live once, you might as well enjoy life. I sure as hell enjoy every second driving my CX, though I do question my own sanity as the mercury in the thermometer climbs of 30degrees C.
seeya,
Shane L.
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pete_wood_uk
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I'd go for it, Dave. If it wasn't for the fact that we needed a second car to use as a car, not a "project", we'd never have sold ours. There's nothing else quite like it out there to drive. Your profile says you're not a man who's scared of taking a car to pieces...
Check it hasn't been in a front-end shunt. My wife gave ours a light knock, and it only just survived. The front cross-member goes back, the tops of the wheelarches get buckled, and the bodyshop said they'd never do another one as long as they lived, as they straightened it with a variety of hydralic jacks. Clues to the shunt (in mine, anyway, even after straightening) were ripples in the tops of the wheelarches.
The bonnets rust away from underneath in the front corners, and if the strut hinge has seized at some point then the bonnet will sit with one corner higher than the other.
I saw a joke, years ago, in a car magazine's buyer's guide to used CXs - it said you can always tell the ones that have been damaged/repaired, they're the ones with good even panel gaps - They never came out of the factory like that.
Apart from the things that people have mentioned above, you want to check it's straight. Get it parked with the wheels all in a line and make sure that front and back are pointing the same way - note that the track is different in front and rear, so it takes a bit of squinting while kneeling a few yards behind the car. You may need someone to hold the steering wheel off-centre to get the front wheels straight if the DiRaVi isn't centred, but don't worry about that it's an easy fix. Just check the chassis is capable of getting the wheels in a straight line (they can get bent if they've been badly jacked). Also, as with any swing-arm Cit, check the rear wheels are vertical.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Pete
Check it hasn't been in a front-end shunt. My wife gave ours a light knock, and it only just survived. The front cross-member goes back, the tops of the wheelarches get buckled, and the bodyshop said they'd never do another one as long as they lived, as they straightened it with a variety of hydralic jacks
. Clues to the shunt (in mine, anyway, even after straightening) were ripples in the tops of the wheelarches. The bonnets rust away from underneath in the front corners, and if the strut hinge has seized at some point then the bonnet will sit with one corner higher than the other.
I saw a joke, years ago, in a car magazine's buyer's guide to used CXs - it said you can always tell the ones that have been damaged/repaired, they're the ones with good even panel gaps - They never came out of the factory like that.
Apart from the things that people have mentioned above, you want to check it's straight. Get it parked with the wheels all in a line and make sure that front and back are pointing the same way - note that the track is different in front and rear, so it takes a bit of squinting while kneeling a few yards behind the car. You may need someone to hold the steering wheel off-centre to get the front wheels straight if the DiRaVi isn't centred, but don't worry about that it's an easy fix. Just check the chassis is capable of getting the wheels in a straight line (they can get bent if they've been badly jacked). Also, as with any swing-arm Cit, check the rear wheels are vertical.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Pete