Oil in clutch

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funkster
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Oil in clutch

Post by funkster »

My clutch has had it, after only going 800 miles. It was changed at an authorized dealer, with all the usual guarantees.
Before they changed it, I informed them that the present clutch had only done 20,000 miles, and it was starting to shake when setting off in first gear. "New clutch" they said.
Having only made an appointment after Easter for the clutch, and after informing them that they had changed it only last month, I'm worried if they are going to say it's not their fault. Also concerned that they'll say it's caused by some other fault in another part of the mechanism around the clutch, and not anything to do with the clutch they changed.
I can see on the invoice they changed various seals and gaskets around the clutch.
What could be going on in the clutch??
Not being a mechanic, I don't know what seals/bungs whatever are changed in connection with the new clutch, and so can't really argument my case.
How likely is it that I'll have to fork out for the reparations. Hopefully not very likely if the clutch is only 800 miles old. Otherwise I'm £700 poorer.
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Kowalski
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Post by Kowalski »

There are only really two seals that are relavent to a clutch change and your current problem, one is the seal on the gearbox input shaft, the other is the crankshaft oil seal. These are the only two that can cause oil to get onto the clutch directly, if they've been changed by the dealer and you're getting oil onto the clutch again its because they didn't do their job correctly i.e. they have had £700 off you already and your clutch is no better.
There is nothing in the clutch mechanism that can cause it to slip that should not have already have been looked at. £700 is expensive for a clutch, I've heard £250 quoted so for £700 I'd expect an A1 job especially when you consider that its an authorised dealer.
funkster
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Post by funkster »

It's because it's Denmark...
Things are crazily overpriced over here. But chose to get the dealer to do it for the added security.
Hopefully it'll pay off.
Do you think that the seals haven't been "sealing" properly???
harryb.48
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Post by harryb.48 »

It sounds like your clutch was contaminated with oil prior to renewal ( Judder usually caused by small leak,which will usually become slip as oil leak increases )which was the likely reason the garage changed the seal(s)in the first place.
I agree with kowalski that the garage botched the job and you should be entitled to a complete repair without charge.
You did not say why your new clutch has "had it" - is it slipping?
funkster
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Post by funkster »

No slipping whatsoever. But quite a lot of judder in first when starting off.
The mechanic said it's probably coolant or oil in the clutch.
I've been topping up with oil recently where I've never done so before so I guess it's that.
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Post by bxbodger »

There is a possibility that they replaced the crankshaft rear oil seal when they did the last clutch change, and they didn't put the new one in properly, or,more likely, they may have invoiced you for it but not actually done it- I don't know about Denmark, but in this country a clutch change would be farmed out by a main dealer to someone else, probably working in a railway arch, as it doesn't require a lot of specialist knowledge or tools or computer access.
My brother in law works in a Nissan main dealership, and I don't think he has ever seen a Nissan clutch!!!!
Leakage from this oil seal is normally what makes a clutch judder, but it can also be caused by coolant water getting into the bellhousing-I know this because that is what my BX is suffering from at the moment until I get my replacement hose!!!
It could be that the oil seals have never been replaced on any of these clutch changes- you would do it youself because its only a cheap bit but in a trade environment time is money!!!!
I think you may have to end up putting it down to experience and going to someone recommended by a friend.
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Post by oilyspanner »

I have had clutch judder on a BX Td which was caused by coolant leaking in via the inspection hole on the top of the bellhousing, fixing the leak fixed the problem, Oil contamination can be washed away by using an aerosol can of brake cleaner through the same inspection hole whilst an accomplice presses the clutch pedal it should be possible to thoroughly flush out the clutch, some later gearboxes do not seem to have this inspection hole, but may have some slots further back, if all else fails then either the starter motor can be removed or the dust shield from underneath, of course if theres still oil leaking in rather than greasy dabs then returning the vehicle to the expensive repairer with threats of trading standards may do the trick.
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jeremy
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Post by jeremy »

Crankshaft seal will leak behind the flywheel and unless the leakage is enormous it will be flung off the back of the flywheel and be collected on the bellhousing. So if there is a major leak its going to come out the bottom. (or elsewhere on PSA engines as they have holes all over the place in this area.)
Some engines have a plate covering the flywheel at the bottom - it may be possible to remove this and see what is going on.
Are your engine mounts sound? Bad mounts can cause a clutch judder especially when moving off.
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fastandfurryous
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Post by fastandfurryous »

I'd agree with Jeremy on this, One of the XUD engines I had, in an old Talbot Horizon years ago, used to throw engine oil out of the crankshaft oil seal almost as fast as you could pour it in (well, not really, but you know what I mean) and it all simply dribbled out of the bottom of the gearbox/engine mounting, past the shield plate (you know.. the one you always forget to remove when taking a gearbox out, and wonder why it won't come off!).
Even with oil everywhere on the back of the flywheel, the clutch was fine. When eventually I had to change the clutch as it was worn out, it had no signs of oil contamination. It only used to judder after going through a flood, so I'd say the coolant-from-above option looks more likely.
Worn engine mounts are worth looking at, but they will only amplify a problem. If the clutch is correct, then even completely worn out engine mounts won't make any difference.
another thing that can cause clutch judder is rusting between the splines of the friction plate and the gearbox input shaft, although if this is only 800 miles old, I doubt that's the problem. Although if the imput shaft is damaged, has picked up a serious burr or two, and the last "fitter" simply shoved the gearbox home as hard as he could, then this may be the problem.
Certainly if it were my car, I't be taking it back to them, stating "it was fine beforehand, you've done something to it, and now it doesn't work. Your problem. You fix it. And I'll have a courtesy car in the meantime too."
funkster
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Post by funkster »

Turns out that it was just a "bad clutch". The dealer changed under guarantee.
The oil depletion came from the area around the oil filter leaking.
Thanks for your help guys.
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