Hi everybody,
after 123.000 miles without any kind of problems, my W reg. Xantia Hdi today said me “Good morning” with a red led indicating problems with the cooling liquid and an imperative “STOP” on the dashboard. I have immediately checked my garage floor, looking for some kind of puddle but I did not find any signs of liquid leak. Anyway, after adding about half a litre of water the red led did not turn on and I have been able to run about 35 miles without any problems at all and a normal water temperature of 75ish C degrees as usual. However, after 9 hours I turned on the ignition again and the problem reoccurred.
Again, after adding some water I have been able to come back home, but then I went to my local mechanic who told me that tomorrow he will have a look.
A week ago I realized that just turning on the air conditioning made the water led and the STOP light on the dashboard flash intermittently, but as soon as I turned it off the problem disappeared, so I had almost forgotten it.
I am totally ignorant about car engineering but it looks to me like replacing the water pump (£ 21.00 at GSF) can be the solution, however I am a little bit worried about the cost, since I have already been ripped of in the past.
Does anybody have an idea of how much can such a job cost to me, so that I can determine if my mechanic’s offer is reasonable?
I would also like to know if anybody has already experienced similar problems of water leaking without any apparent leak.
Thank you very much indeed for your attention,
Best Regards,
Fab
Xantia Hdi water pump
Moderator: RichardW
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tonespeed1999
- Posts: 205
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- Location: United Kingdom
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Hi Tonespeed,
first of all, thank you for your answer.
Is it going to be an expensive thing? I have seen that the Head Gasket Set is priced £ 24.50 at GSF, that sounds fair and cheap, but I really have no idea of how much I could pay for the mechanics replacing / fitting job.
Thank you very much for your reply,
Best Regards,
fab
first of all, thank you for your answer.
Is it going to be an expensive thing? I have seen that the Head Gasket Set is priced £ 24.50 at GSF, that sounds fair and cheap, but I really have no idea of how much I could pay for the mechanics replacing / fitting job.
Thank you very much for your reply,
Best Regards,
fab
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Simon Canfer
- Posts: 114
- Joined: 02 Mar 2001, 17:41
- Location: United Kingdom
- My Cars:
I would consult a diesel engineer, look for "Delphi" or Bosch diesel in yellow pages. They'll be able to do pressure tests to determine what's amiss.
As you have an early HDi there's not much experience here as to head failures! Plenty of failures on the older XUD-T engine but some have suggested as the HDi is lower compression ratio it would be less prone.
I'd expect to pay a day's labour for a head gasket job, best to find a decent independant garage! Parts costs are the least of your worries.
Simon
As you have an early HDi there's not much experience here as to head failures! Plenty of failures on the older XUD-T engine but some have suggested as the HDi is lower compression ratio it would be less prone.
I'd expect to pay a day's labour for a head gasket job, best to find a decent independant garage! Parts costs are the least of your worries.
Simon
Firstly - you say you add water and the problem goes away. How full are you filling it and how far is the level dropping. I'm not familiar with the HDi but expect the handbook gives the necessary information and you should be able to find any marks with a torch.
If you overfill the radiator or header tank the car will blow out the surplus when it gets hot. This is not a fault but simply what it is meant to do. If this is what is happening then you have a fault with the level sensor system which is electrical.
If you are loosing water than its going somewhere. It may be a simple leak - in which case it will be visible if you look in the right place. It could be leaking through the heater matrix in which case the inside of the car may have the delicate smell of antifreeze, windows may mist up or the carpets may even be wet. If its leaking outside you should be able to see it.
Alternatively the cylinder head gasket may have failed in which case the coolat is going inside the engine. If this happens there is usually some gas leakage into the cooling system which may show up as pressurisation - heavy gas escape when the cap is removed, very hard hoses, bubbling visible when the cap is removed (some may be normal) smell of burnt fuel from the cooling system and so on. Replacing the head gasket is quite a major job (£300 min and probably loads more) and experience of the HDi engine on here is not that common. It may be much the same as the earlier TD in which case you will find numerous accounts if you search. So far as I'm aware Haynes has been busy producing Baby manuals rather than ones for this engine.
Accurate diagnosis is vital - after all if you replace a water pump when the head gasket has failed you will still have to replace head gasket. Incidentally changeing a waterpump probably involves removing, refitting and retensioning of the cambelt as well.
jeremy
If you overfill the radiator or header tank the car will blow out the surplus when it gets hot. This is not a fault but simply what it is meant to do. If this is what is happening then you have a fault with the level sensor system which is electrical.
If you are loosing water than its going somewhere. It may be a simple leak - in which case it will be visible if you look in the right place. It could be leaking through the heater matrix in which case the inside of the car may have the delicate smell of antifreeze, windows may mist up or the carpets may even be wet. If its leaking outside you should be able to see it.
Alternatively the cylinder head gasket may have failed in which case the coolat is going inside the engine. If this happens there is usually some gas leakage into the cooling system which may show up as pressurisation - heavy gas escape when the cap is removed, very hard hoses, bubbling visible when the cap is removed (some may be normal) smell of burnt fuel from the cooling system and so on. Replacing the head gasket is quite a major job (£300 min and probably loads more) and experience of the HDi engine on here is not that common. It may be much the same as the earlier TD in which case you will find numerous accounts if you search. So far as I'm aware Haynes has been busy producing Baby manuals rather than ones for this engine.
Accurate diagnosis is vital - after all if you replace a water pump when the head gasket has failed you will still have to replace head gasket. Incidentally changeing a waterpump probably involves removing, refitting and retensioning of the cambelt as well.
jeremy
Hi Simon,
thanks for your answer. I am really crossing the fingers for tomorrow verdict about my car (and my finances as well).
The most surprising thing to me is that after refilling the water tank, the engine has behaved perfectly: no strange noises, the rotation regime was absolutely regular, no power interruptions, normal acceleration.
If it had not been for the water led this morning I would have not noticed anything strange about my car behaviour and performance.
I have read that some of the common symptoms of head gasket failure include the following, but none of them has occurred to me:
- Foaming, bubbling, or "gargling" in the radiator.
- Rapid pressure build-up in your cooling system, before the engine has warmed up.
- Coolant overflowing from the reservoir bottle because of the pressure.
- White smoke coming from the tailpipe, sometimes intermittently.
- Water in the oil. When they mix, the oil gets a chocolate milkshake appearance.
- Oil in the coolant.
As soon as possible I will post an update, possibly not about the decision of getting a new car
Thanks to everybody for the attention.
Fab
thanks for your answer. I am really crossing the fingers for tomorrow verdict about my car (and my finances as well).
The most surprising thing to me is that after refilling the water tank, the engine has behaved perfectly: no strange noises, the rotation regime was absolutely regular, no power interruptions, normal acceleration.
If it had not been for the water led this morning I would have not noticed anything strange about my car behaviour and performance.
I have read that some of the common symptoms of head gasket failure include the following, but none of them has occurred to me:
- Foaming, bubbling, or "gargling" in the radiator.
- Rapid pressure build-up in your cooling system, before the engine has warmed up.
- Coolant overflowing from the reservoir bottle because of the pressure.
- White smoke coming from the tailpipe, sometimes intermittently.
- Water in the oil. When they mix, the oil gets a chocolate milkshake appearance.
- Oil in the coolant.
As soon as possible I will post an update, possibly not about the decision of getting a new car
Thanks to everybody for the attention.
Fab
cant really say about the fact that you may be loosing water but the problem of the stop & temp light flash when you switch the A/C on says to me that you have a cooling fan problem.either one of the motors has siezed or there is a feed missing from one of the relays.the same thing will happen if the fans try to cut in when its warm.
Thanks to Jeremy for his very detailed and helpful comment. I just would like to add that before today I have never had to refill the water tank and the car has always been serviced by professional mechanics, both Citroen and independent, every 12,500 miles.
Actually 3 weeks ago I have had the 6 hydraulic spheres replaced by Westroen in Manchester (excellent job by the way!) but I cannot see how that could be related to the problems that I am experiencing now.
I will let you know all the developments in the next days.
Cheers,
Fab
Actually 3 weeks ago I have had the 6 hydraulic spheres replaced by Westroen in Manchester (excellent job by the way!) but I cannot see how that could be related to the problems that I am experiencing now.
I will let you know all the developments in the next days.
Cheers,
Fab