HG Failing

rashmore · Post by **rashmore** » 14 Mar 2005, 15:46

Its official, went to get the car chemical tested at independant pug/cit trained mechanics on saturday to see if head gasket is failing but didn't need to, as there are now so many bubbles coming up, it looked like a a bottle of fizzy drink.
To fix will be around £250, that incl replacing cam timing belt and getting head checked/skimmed. Take upto a week depending upon how busy engineering works are. and assuming it not need pressure testing if no obvious break in gasket is seen - hopefuly not cracked.
Seems a fair price ?
Should i continue to drive, or blag a lift as this has been offered, hence save putting further strain on head.
Is it worth getting oil seals done as well - been told this may be why it blue smokes when running on own steam down hill when start journey, until oil burnt off - not sure which part they in ?, either that or tappets may be off slightly. not using a lot of oil, figured just leaking a little oil back.
When cam belt changed should they change tensioners as well ?
Radiator is getting passed its best so may as well change that, looking for prices - any recs on brand ?
getting to be virtually a new car at this rate....

Cheers

dan.2cv · Post by **dan.2cv** » 14 Mar 2005, 17:05

What mileage has the car done?
£250 seems cheap for a HG. Whenever I've done HG jobs (although I've never done a diesel) I've always reground the valves and replaced the oil seals and usualy done a (at least top end) de-coke. I doubt they're going to do all this for £250, it's just up to you how far you want them to go.
Don't know about the tensioners.
I think the clearances on the XUD are shims, which should come back spot-on after a HG (ie: included in the work)
Don't drive the car any more, you could do more damage.
Radiator past its best? If it's not leaking try cleaning it out.
Those are my humble opinons!!
all the best

rashmore · Post by **rashmore** » 14 Mar 2005, 18:28

Cheers
Car is 1994, only done 47 K (36k when i picked it up 18 mnths ago)
Will ask about oil seals etc
Thought best not to drive anymore - lifts organised as off tomorrow
Radiator has oxidation on it at the bottom - like when u get a leak around a pipe join, blue/white fur - if got to drain the system , then may as well.....
cheers

yangreen · Post by **yangreen** » 14 Mar 2005, 22:44

My 306 with Turbo Diesel engine had a cambelt at 46k and head gasket. Thank you warranty. I've just had the belt done again at 89k and the tensioners were still ok. That's very low mileage for the age so I'm not sure whether that is of benefit or hindrance when it comes to the tensioners but it is certainly the time to check them! And the water pump apparently although again, mine was fine.

oilyspanner · Post by **oilyspanner** » 14 Mar 2005, 22:54

The engineering works will have to remove the valves to skim the head, so while its there ask them to replace the oil seals, its a five minute job at that point, tappets will not be affected so if theres a loose one or a tight one now might be the time, £250 sounds fair to me, do not drive the thing any more than you have to, if you really need to drive it then leave the water top loose to allow gases to escape otherwise other components are at risk.
Stewart

ActivaV6uk · Post by **ActivaV6uk** » 14 Mar 2005, 23:11

just for the sake of it put a piece of newspaper under the engine tonight, you may find that the leek is actualy from the waterpump, or another componant...
Andy

Dave Bamber · Post by **Dave Bamber** » 15 Mar 2005, 02:47

Rich
Ask them to change the tensioner, idler and water pump. Tensioner kit is about £40 and the pump is about £18 from GSF. Think about the cam seal at the belt end too. I take it you have the vac exhauster at the gear box end so no seal there.
The head bolts should be replaced on build up as they stretch and should not be re-used.
If you suspect the rad in any way, change it, it's not worth the risk.

rashmore · Post by **rashmore** » 15 Mar 2005, 13:13

Cheers for the input. Had thought about some of them but figured best to check
Will phone them today to confirm the extras

, and added cost....

Hopefully get it dropped off this saturday.
Off to GSF to get prices then.

rashmore · Post by **rashmore** » 15 Mar 2005, 21:09

Hmmm, garage is now fully booked up until the 11 April, another for the next three weekes, one left to try b4 look at diy.
I'm quite handy with spanners, (had to replace engine in petrol b4 and set ignition timing etc) so is the job difficult or just time consuming. I have a haynes book of lies to assist/hinder so will see what they have to say, if anything.
So could strip one weekend, drop off head to an engineers to skim, then reassemble following weekend. Only concern is timing/cam belt as never set one up before. Quicker than waiting for garage to do.
Will search site to see if any posts on what to do when get home.
Cheers

Richy-p · Post by **Richy-p** » 15 Mar 2005, 21:52

Do NOT drive the car about.....
My Pug 405 GLDT was going in for a head replacement and on the way to the garage and the bloody thing went [:(!] get them to do as much work as possible when the head is off because they will charge more to do seals etc later (when they have to get it off again)
The price seems resonable to me but once they have been replaced, they never last as long as the original and could go again.

CommY · Post by **CommY** » 15 Mar 2005, 23:28

Do it yourself with the aid of this site and a BOL then you can do it. Just get a comprehensive list of parts/tools required; here is what I can think of apart from the obvious.
Valve spring compressor (may be able to hire otherwise I have an old one somewhere you can have for the postage)
Grinding paste
Stick with sucker on the end (for grinding valves)
All the correct pins to set the timing
Right sized torx bit for head bolts
Torque wrench
Graduated disk for angle tightening (make this yourself)
Gasket sealant? (Depends on whether you need it for sealing the cam bearing end cap)
Any other ideas folks??
Just take the stripped down head in for testing/skimming then regrind and replace new stem seals yourself.
As for parts required i.e. Water pump, cam belt, tensioners etc. will someone else point him in the right direction as I have never done this particular Citroen head so don't know the model specifics.

rashmore · Post by **rashmore** » 16 Mar 2005, 16:14

Cheers CommY - may take u up on the offer of valve spring compressors - yet to decide whether to make a start on it....what is graduated disk - or will all become clear if read Haynes

A friend asked hid bro about it who has worked on these b4. Says they are a pain to do as there is that much to strip off (not an issue - got the time to do it - waiting 3 - 4 weeks as is to get in garage)
He recommended swapping thermostat, as that can give the same effect as HG failure - many a mechanic (dodgy i hasten to add) said hg failure when in actuality was simply dodgy thermostat, hence make some cash. Figured mine was working ok as geting hot air in cabin, hence not change already, tho thinking about it not as hot as used to be...will try that first then , if not solve then time to bite the bullet and clear out garage

rashmore · Post by **rashmore** » 21 Mar 2005, 13:56

Changed the thermostat on saturday.
15 mile trip to work today, let cool for 5 mins, remove rad cap, start engine and observe.
Unable to see any bubbles like fizzy pop the other weekend, fluid level seems ok. Not overly pressurised like before, slight fizz but nothing big
So will keep an eye on it for the week, but hopefully it was a dodgy 'stat. [:)]
Radiator is looking past its best but will have to wait for now.
May get it chemical tested (no charge for this) for good measure as mechanic not check when he saw the bubbles last week. [?]