Will a HDI engine fit into a 1.9td car??

joe_405TD · Post by **joe_405TD** » 02 Mar 2005, 21:20

Hello guys need some help with this one...
I have a peugeot 405 1.9td 1995, i have found a cheap HDI citroen engine for it. the engine looks very similar to mine i.e the engine mount locations, i know the gear box one is in the same place.
Will my gear box fit to a hdi engine and are the mounts in the same place or if not can they easily be modified??
I am sure they are similar as the 406 had the hdi and 1.9td as did the xantia so they must be similar??
Any help or advice would be welcome
Cheers joe

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 02 Mar 2005, 22:03

My bet all the mechanicals are a direct fit.
But then you have to mess around with all the extra's that goes with the HDI, like auxillary engine coolant heater and all the electrics.
Guess the latter will be the hardest job and might crash the whole project.
The new generation HDI diesel is a lot different from the earlier type diesel engines.

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 02 Mar 2005, 22:12

If the HDI is a 90, you can probably connect it to your gearbox (although you'll need the right clutch for it, the HDI has a hydraulic clutch where as the TD has a pull cable operated type). If its a 110, it produces more torque, so the gearbox might not last as long as you'd like...

Post by **Jon** » 02 Mar 2005, 22:15

Anders is of course, quite right.
The HDi is a very similar block to the XUD and will fit using XUD mounts, plus mating to the gearbox if BE3 is no problem.
Where your problems would lie:
The HDi requires an in tank lift pump
The HDi won't run without an ECU and associated wiring
The HDi has a multitude of other stuff that you would have to make work, such as the water preheaters in the cooling system. There are various other issues such as whether an XUD flywheel could be fitted to an HDi engine (well the crank is the same). I like modifying cars, but on this occasion, have to say that the pitfalls outweigh the advantages.

joe_405TD · Post by **joe_405TD** » 02 Mar 2005, 22:21

humm well all the engines forsale come with the full loom and ecu and even the gear box, the wierd thing will just be that lift pump in the tank... sounds like an anoying job to do but other than that sounds reasonably possible.
Cheers for the advice and input guys

joe_405TD · Post by **joe_405TD** » 02 Mar 2005, 22:29

P.S guys what price is reasonable for a hdi 110 or 90 with ecu loom and box??
Cheers Joe

np · Post by np » 02 Mar 2005, 22:30

Anything is possible with time & money!Although as above,the electrics would be the worst thing.
Depends on how much you want to do it.Maybe the first in the UK???

Post by **Jon** » 02 Mar 2005, 22:33

Joe
If its a complete engine, box, loom and ECU then its certainly more viable. You need someone very good indeed with electrics to splice it in to your 405 loom though.......
Re the lift pump bit, you maybe able to fit a 306 or 406 sender/lift pump combined unit in your tank, and cable/relay to it accordingly. Not impossible I guess, but if its a 90BHP HDI, where are the advantages over a 92BHP XUD9TE? About the same power for both engines, I agree that the HDi is far cleaner emissions wise. As I own both HDi 90 and XUDTE vehicles, I couldn't even honestly tell you that the HDi was any better on fuel than its 11 year old relative....

joe_405TD · Post by **joe_405TD** » 02 Mar 2005, 22:43

i was after a 110 hdi as there are massive tuning capabilities from this engine, Allard are some people who do chip and bigger intercoolers for a price but a standard chip upgrade is not to much to take it to around 130-140bhp, so i thought this would be quite cool.
The loom issue could be difficult, just thought it would be good as ive found a citroen hid engine with just 18k out of a 02 model very cheap.
This enspired me to find out more, but its a good point about the 1.9td not been to bad anyway, ive messed about with it and turned the boost up and it goes VERY well.
Might leave it till my engine stops living or i find a cheap donor car???

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 02 Mar 2005, 22:44

The HDIs are better on fuel than the XUDs, they have more torque lower down in the rev range less turbo lag and are more refined.
In a Xantia the combined figures are 1.9 D 44, 1.9TD 40 and 50 for the HDI. For the berlingo (which Jon has), the 1.9D does 40 and where as the HDI does 47 or 49.

madasafish · Post by **madasafish** » 03 Mar 2005, 00:16

My advice is : don't bother.
The electrics will be VERY complex. Even an accomplished auto electrician will take days of trying to get it to work. It is NOT a simple case of wiring in the ECU and loom. You may /probably will finmd you will have to rewire most of the car and if you have ABS that will be fun.
If you are doing it and are not a highly competent autoelectrician budget for 40 hours for one. And how much will one charge you? Oh I'd say minimum £25 per hour.
And when it breaks down with an electrical fault - which is inevitable - or has an annoying recurring random electrical fault (like the engine switching off at odd times ) no-one will be able to trouble shoot except the auto electrician who did the original work for you. And he'll come and do it as a labour of love? Will he heck!
And before you ccan insure it , the insurance company will want a FULL engineers report. Will you upgrade the braking system? If not, then the engineer will fail it. And if you don't tell the insurers , then your insurance company will not pay out on any claims.
Sell your TD, Buy an HDI.. the cheap one s are under £3k: you could easily spend £3k on your project and still not have a functioning car.
Have you budgetted for a new exhaust system? New radiator. New hoses. New brakes. Huge insuarnce premium?
If you have no written down and detailed budget with what you need to replace and proper costs estimated, then whatever you think now as the costs should be multiplied by at least 3 and possibly 5. (That's why Governements overspend on IT and Defence contracts).

NiSk · Post by **NiSk** » 03 Mar 2005, 01:45

You could always try and find a 406 with a duff hdi engine going cheap - I've seen a few with blown head gaskets/ bust timing belts going very cheap. Then you sell your 406 with its current engine once youi've slotted your Cit engine in place!
//NiSk

joe_405TD · Post by **joe_405TD** » 03 Mar 2005, 01:56

Think you been a bit dramatic there, if everyone thought like you no one would ever do anything to a car.
The mi16 has the same disks and calipers as the td as do most 405 models and the mi16 has 160 bhp, the hdi will have 110 so theres no issue there.Ha Ha im not puting in a jet engine!!
the loom will be difficult but with determination it will work, ive seen examples of hdi's put in old mk1 306 with few massive problems, the wiring looms are not that complex if you read the diagrams and have some patience. Most things are managed by the ecu and this is part of the loom, and the complex, bit its already in. you have to wire in things like temp all guages and power for the loom.
As the engine is peugeot and 2.0 instead of 1.9 there will be few issues with insurance and they look the same and vertually are.
Have you ever undertaken a project or have any practical experience??

ActivaV6uk · Post by **ActivaV6uk** » 03 Mar 2005, 03:06

Are you sure the Mi16 has the same callipers as the TD? The BX16v doesn’t, the callipers on that are vented ware as all the other BX's have none vented disks. All my Activa projects now have the V6 Xantia callipers as a point of safety and the car isn’t put back on the road until there fitted.
I've looked into the HDi a Great deal and the electronics are a nightmare however it is possible to fit it to your 405. you will need to bypass some of the ecu's security system which will be best done by getting the ECU reprogrammed so there is no immobiliser. the engine mounts them selves will fit so long as you use a 306 engine and box and lower mount.
I decided that the 2L 8v hdi's were too much trouble for what they give you. i am going with the old 2.1 short term and then the 2L 16v hdi (137bhp standard) when i can find one (rare is an understatement!).
£500 is reasonable for a HDi (with gearbox, loom and ecu) to be honest there seem to be lots of low mileage ones available but as I said for the effort and cost I don’t see its worth it.
Andy

ActivaV6uk · Post by **ActivaV6uk** » 03 Mar 2005, 03:11

You should be aware that the HDi looks nothing like the 1.9 other than its an XU derived engine. When the DVLA check the engine serial number they will know what it is also if its not on your V5 you will be done for no insurance and no MOT. If its on your V5 and not your insurance policy you will be done for no insurance (and can be sued for damages).
Andy