Control arm bushes

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HaydnR
Posts: 61
Joined: 07 Feb 2004, 18:18

Control arm bushes

Post by HaydnR » 18 Feb 2005, 00:28

I have an impending job of replacing the control arm (wishbone) bushes on my '99 xantia hdi as the nearside front was worn to excess failing the MOT. I have bought replacement bushes from GSF for both sides for the front and rear of the control arm. I had a browse through Haynes joke book to see what was involved and also a search on this forum but only finding a couple of relevant posts. I took off the roadwheel to have a look also. The worst part looks like the removal and fitting of the front bush and maybe all the plastic underneath the enginebut looks posible without the latter.
I phoned a local vehicle engineers in Chessington he quoted me £50 an hour and I should think it would take 1-1 1/2 hours. He said he would press the bushes out and in fot me if I bought the control arms in, this sounds like the better/cheaper option.
In one of the forum posts it mentioned drilling the P shaped bush off, I take it this is the rear bush and is that necessary as it looks as if the contol arm is a loose fit in it. Also is it necessary to make sure the rear bush is aligned spot on, I would have thought by tightening the front first will put the rear into the correct position. Last question would the replacement nylocks be available from GSF as the counter assistant looked confused when I asked him.
Any advice recieved greatly appreciated.
Haydn

john alexander
Posts: 360
Joined: 12 Apr 2004, 00:43

Control arm bushes

Post by john alexander » 18 Feb 2005, 01:03

Hi just done my xantia 1.9 TD .P shaped bushing I took off with an angle grinder, inner metal tube is a very tight fit,just grind along the length untill it splits.The front one I ground flush with the arm then set about it with a chisel to drive it out.I bought a new arm a few months back and the rear bush lay level but opposite to the front of the arm, hold it in your hand looking rear to front down the arm , if the balljoint end points left the brackets on the rear bushing point right. If you can get someone to do it cheap on a loose arm go for it , or buy a cheap 5" grinder,stick a wire cup brush on it and you can remove the corrosion behind the rear calipers (yesterdays job).If you live near Livingston bring it round. Hope this helps, phone me if you want I can talk slightly better than typing.Regards John.

john alexander
Posts: 360
Joined: 12 Apr 2004, 00:43

Control arm bushes

Post by john alexander » 18 Feb 2005, 01:21

quick update ALDI 24th FEB angle grinders £8.99 .

HaydnR
Posts: 61
Joined: 07 Feb 2004, 18:18

Control arm bushes

Post by HaydnR » 18 Feb 2005, 02:21

Thanks for the reply, I have an angle grinder so will bear that in mind. Im not near Livingstone yet but hope to be in the not so distant future and may take on your offer of help if I get stuck. Notice that you are a welder also very handy to know.
Many thanks again
Haydn

HaydnR
Posts: 61
Joined: 07 Feb 2004, 18:18

Control arm bushes

Post by HaydnR » 21 Feb 2005, 04:52

What a job!
eventually got the control arm off. I didnt have a balljoint splitter but managed with a 2 leg gear puller. It was a bit fiddly getting the arm past the anti roll bar. The old bushes were a bit time consuming, pushed the centre of the front bush outwith a couple of sockets and a vice then cut a section of the bush out with a hacksaw and the rest pushed out. The rear bush was cut off with a hacksaw the inner part being cut nearly all the way through then split the rest of the way with a small chisel. I then cleaned up the control arm where the bushes had corroded with some wet and dry paper. With a small smear of grease the new bushes pushed into place by hand with ease.
The control arm was then refitted with no problem. When I drove the xantia home from my friends house where we had done the job there was a clunking noise coming from the front nearside where we had replaced the bushes. It was noticable when that wheel went over a bump or could be caused by moving forward or reverse from a standstill. After spending a sleepless night worrying about the problem I had a look on this forum just to worry a bit more that it may be the lower balljoint.
On inspecting the front suspension today the position the control arm was in was slid forward about 1/8th of a inch on the front bush. It could be pushed back quite easily. There was about 1/4 inch vertical movement in the suspension strut but no other noticable movement.
Any ideas on what the problem could be and how to cure it? It was suggested that I araldite the bushes into place but it seems a bit of an unorthadox cure.
I have thought about buying a replacement arm as I think they come with bushes fitted but this seems a little drastic and they arent listed in the gsf catalogue. I need to get the job done as it needs to go back to the MOT station by Tuesday for the free retest. Mind you I am a bit concerned about the MOT station as the lady who was infront of me had had some service work done and an MOT on her espace which it had passed but they warned her that the front bushes were worn but it was ok . Then they failed mine on the bushes and prior to replacing them there was no noise or affected steering from them although lateral play was noticable on inspection.
Also does anyone know where the manual transmission filler plug is on the HDI as I lost some oil from it when removing the control and thought this may be the cause of the noise.
Haydn

Dave Burns
Posts: 1916
Joined: 14 May 2001, 05:30
x 2

Control arm bushes

Post by Dave Burns » 21 Feb 2005, 05:20

"<font color="red">With a small smear of grease the new bushes pushed into place by hand with ease</font id="red">."
If you could shove the new ones in by hand there is something radically wrong, these things should be an interferance fit and in no way should you be able to push them in like that.
<font color="red">"On inspecting the front suspension today the position the control arm was in was slid forward about 1/8th of a inch on the front bush. It could be pushed back quite easily."</font id="red">
Apart from the fact that it should not be able to slide on the bush at all, it should be impossible to go forwards as the flange on the front bush would prevent it, assuming the bush has been put in from the front as it should be.
Dave

HaydnR
Posts: 61
Joined: 07 Feb 2004, 18:18

Control arm bushes

Post by HaydnR » 21 Feb 2005, 05:28

Thanks for the reply.
The bushes were brand new from GSF and the front bush was fitted the same way as it was removed the metal flange toward the rear. I hope the bolts 3 are in the correct position, the longest was removed and refitted to the front hole of the rear bush.
Haydn

joe_405TD
Posts: 21
Joined: 14 Feb 2005, 04:07

Control arm bushes

Post by joe_405TD » 21 Feb 2005, 05:35

you need to take the bush back off the arm and put some chizel maks on the shat so it is hard to put back on... the bush should be a tigh fit and you should need to force it on. As for the bushes i recomend you buy some better ones... the bushes supplied by gsf are for lack of a better word CRAP and i have had some last only a few months before worn heavily. try pricing up some proper dealer ones as they last much longer.

oilyspanner
Posts: 1246
Joined: 26 Oct 2003, 17:08

Control arm bushes

Post by oilyspanner » 21 Feb 2005, 05:48

The ones I did I cut the old ones off with a mini grinder, they were very tight on the shaft, memorise the position of eh old ones on the shaft( make drawing) I used a big vice to press the new ones on, the front ones were intact I didnt touch them but they were definitely not easy on the shaft. Futting both sides together is best as the anti roll bar must be swung out of the way
Stewart

HaydnR
Posts: 61
Joined: 07 Feb 2004, 18:18

Control arm bushes

Post by HaydnR » 21 Feb 2005, 15:50

Definately in a dilema now.
Complete arm with bushes: Citroen £116.60 + vat
GSF £72 + vat ( unsure if they have bushes but think they have)

Bushes Front: citroen £6.98 ( to be confirmed as computers are down)
GSF £4.50
Bushes rear: citroen £ dont stock ?
GSF £13
Is there a possibility the bushes from GSF although looking identical could be the wrong size?
Do I replace the whole arm (expensive), araldite the bushes in never to be moved again.
Any confirmation on the orientation on the front bush as the ones removed definately wer pressed in from the rear.
HDI transmission filler plug location.
Haydn

jeremy
Posts: 3959
Joined: 20 Oct 2002, 16:00

Control arm bushes

Post by jeremy » 21 Feb 2005, 16:19

Your or more important MY life may depend on your ability to control your car! Do you think it likely that araldite will secure bushes into what must be a worn lower wishbone which is no-doubt rusty and has been greased.
By all means improvise for non-safety related parts but not for suspension or steering please.
Jeremy

Jon

Control arm bushes

Post by Jon » 21 Feb 2005, 21:01

The front bushes we have in stock here @ GSF Brum are Kleber, OE suppliers. They will be the same as Citroen 96083570.

reg
Posts: 5
Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 23:55

Control arm bushes

Post by reg » 21 Feb 2005, 22:25

My 1997 Xantia failed the MOT on the offside bush (front only).
I took the arm off and got a friend to take the old bushes off, and managed to fit the new ones myself, but forgot to secure the front one with the suspension in the normal ride position, and it shredded in a matter of weeks. I removed the arm again, and managed to extract the front bush, and put another in, this time with the suspension lifted to the normal ride height, but its done it again!
Could it be crap bushes? They were only £4.50 each, and I got another new one last week from a Citroen garage which cost me £8.95.
Is there anything else I might be doing wrong when fitting them?

Dave Burns
Posts: 1916
Joined: 14 May 2001, 05:30
x 2

Control arm bushes

Post by Dave Burns » 21 Feb 2005, 23:27

Sorry HaydnR my mistake, yes they are pressed in from the rear and not the front as I had said.
Dave

HaydnR
Posts: 61
Joined: 07 Feb 2004, 18:18

Control arm bushes

Post by HaydnR » 22 Feb 2005, 01:55

Job done now, as the car has to be retested by the end of tomorrow I ordered a control arm from gsf £72 +vat. Worst part was trying to find a decent ball joint separator. I ended up buying a small one from halfords which was a bit fiddly to get on but done the job.
The new arm was fitted easily and the knocking has now gone.
On inspecting the old arm there are a series of notches on the shaft aswell as in the hole at the front. I still dont understand why the replacements were such a loose fit I will clean the grease off and see how they fit then.
Any ideas on the gearbox filler hole location? The only 75/80 gsf had stocked was Total.
Thanks for all your ideas and replies
Haydn