xm fails to go up

ivan olsen · Post by **ivan olsen** » 31 Dec 2004, 18:49

hi,
i've just disassembled the manifold on the top of the lhm reservoir to clean the filters. after i reassembled everything as it was before. tried to start the car, and now i'm facing with the following problem:
stop light is on (as if the lhm level would be too low), and the car fails to lift. i were not dare enough to run for too long tho, as previously it raised to top within 10 seconds max. now i can't even hear the usual noises of the pressure regulator (click-whirrr, whirrrrrrr, and so on).
i had to come in to work, so i couldn't go on with inspection, but now all i suspect is that the two connectors of the lhm level sensor got some lhm on their surface, therefore reporting too low lhm level. would that make the pressure regulator fail to run?
or maybe i need to run the engine for a longer first in order the pressure regulator takes up enough lhm instead of the air that got into the intake pipe?
the lhm level is ok, and i removed all junk from the filters.
i hope you can help, thanks in advance!

jack.dempsey · Post by **jack.dempsey** » 31 Dec 2004, 19:00

Sounds like an air lock in the pump. Try priming it by removing main pump supply pipe and filling with LHM. Then start engine and as soon as it starts to 'pull' LHM through shove the pipe back on. This worked on my BX. Good luck.

DoubleChevron · Post by **DoubleChevron** » 31 Dec 2004, 19:14

Yep,
that should work, pull off the big line than runs to the pump (at the resevoir), push a funnel into the line and fill the funnel with LHM. when the pump start pumping, quickly pull the funnel out and pump it back onto the reseviour.
good luck !
Shane L.

Doc · Post by **Doc** » 31 Dec 2004, 19:23

Had the same problem on my XM after changing accumulator sphere. What I will say now may just be coincidence but try blowing down the vent pipe with the reservoir cap on tight. I tried it and got the pump priming in no time at all, useful for a pump that has seen some mileage!
I have used this method several times now, (accum change, engine removal/refitting), and it seems to work by gently pressurising fluid in reservoir. I haven't tried the other method but I do know it works. Like I said it could be that the pump self primed anyway as I blew through the vent tube. Any one out there know any different?
Doc

NiSk · Post by **NiSk** » 31 Dec 2004, 19:32

I've also used blowing down the vent pipe as a lazy way of forcing LHM into the pump. There's no risk in letting the engine run for several minutes - you can even rev the engine to try and suck the oil into the pump. Did you release the hydraulic pressure with the screw on the front of the pressure regulator? Opening and closing this can also help in difficult cases - but don't undo more than 1 - 1 1/2 turns! If you can feel the servo steering working with the pressure release unscrewed, give it couple of swings back and forth ans then tighten the screw.
Don't forget to perform Citrobatics once you've got it up - in order to get all the air out of the system (up and down, up and down!)
//NiSk

Doc · Post by **Doc** » 31 Dec 2004, 19:49

Hi NiSK, glad I'm not the only one to use this method. I have also used the method where I started the engine let it idle faster than normal and just left it whilst I made myself a cup of tea. 15 minutes later I returned to the car to see it rising gracefully (as gracefully as a 12 year old XM can be!) to normal height - a great feeling. To me, there's nothing worse than that red warning light and a car seemingly stuck to the tarmac...
Of course Mr Olsen, if your red light is on, DO NOT move or attempt to drive the car. Only when the red light goes out and the body starts rising can one then carry out Citroen aerobics and then just to be on the safe side carry out a road test.
Doc

ivan olsen · Post by **ivan olsen** » 31 Dec 2004, 20:08

thanks a lot for all of your answers! it's quite probable that there's too much air in the pump, because now i remember, that when i removed the filters, there were plenty of lhm coming out of that big intake pipe (probably until the bottom of that pipe is unter the lhm level, there's no problem, but when it reaches air level, the lhm just runs out).
i did not release the hydraulic pressure, as i had no time (nor intention) to go under my car yet.
i'll try your methods tomorrow, hope my beloved xm will start to work again(especially because i need to drive 200km tomorrow).
i also hope that it won't be a bad omen for me to start the year by repairing the car. i don't want to do that all next year.

)

Oscar Too · Post by **Oscar Too** » 31 Dec 2004, 20:31

i don't want to do that all next year.

)
Hi Ivan
When you've had a little more time to read this forum, you'll realise that most of us want to do exactly that all next year [:)]
Happy New Year!
Oscar

Doc · Post by **Doc** » 31 Dec 2004, 20:32

Glad we could help.
I'm sure your XM will be fine. As for reliability, I use my XM TD to commute 76 miles a day. I have owned the car for just over two years now and it has been very reliable. The main problem I experienced were air leaks into the fuel filter housing that made the car next to impossible to start. Soon sorted with a Bosch filter housing/primer pump unit.
I change the oil and filter every 6000 miles (part synthetic oil) and only use original Citroen/Beru glowplugs.
Doc

ivan olsen · Post by **ivan olsen** » 31 Dec 2004, 20:45

i'm very satisfied my choice sofar. i bought the car around 5 months ago, and done around 20000kms since without any problem. i has some fears before, but now i think afterall the xm is a nice reliable car. actually i was very lucky, because the previous owners took a lot of care of my car: it had all the regular services and also some extra checks.
i changed from a us car this summer. well the people who say the citroens are unreliable should buy a us car once.

) i've done around 1500km with mine in 1.5 years (around 3 months of use, the rest of the time it was being repaired).
Oscar: i've spent enough time by repairing my us made car.

) now i want to enjoy driving.

ivan olsen · Post by **ivan olsen** » 01 Jan 2005, 18:34

happy new year!
unfortunately for me it's not starting that good.

(
i've tried the tricks you suggessted to me yesterday:
tried to blow down the vent pipe.
i filled the pull pipe with lhm, some air bubbles appeared, started the engine, but i've seen no sign that the pump would start to pull lhm.
after that i tried to de-pressurize by releasing the valve on the pressure regulator. i thought i will hear some hissing noise or something, but i heard nothing at all. i've noticed some red deposit on the 12mm bolt tho, probably some sort of rust, so maybe 1-1 1/2 turn wouldn't be enough. i were dare to release it totally. ran the engine for a while, tightened the bolt back, but nothing.
i even tried to run the engine for like 15 minutes, but no sign of life in the pump.
actually, the pump makes no noise at all.
i'm not even sure now, that the bolt i messed with is really the pressure release valve. so let me explain a bit, which bolt i've messed with:
the model is a '93 td. i've found a green sphere in front of the engine compartment, standing vertically. on the top of the sphere written "ACUM" and some other stuff, i guess that's the accumulator sphere. on the bottom of this sphere is a small device with narrow pipes running in and out of it. at the very bottom of this thing is a 12mm bolt, facing forward of the car (next to it two small pipes attached). so am i right, that this should be the pressure release valve? if yes, should i hear any noise if i release it?
should i hear any noise from the regulator, even if there's some big air bubble in the pump? like a wild clicking sound?
any other ideas?
(really all i've done is to clean the filters, so i doubt the pump would die while the car is standing still, not running).
thanks a lot in advance.
maybe, could someone point me to some illustrations?

NiSk · Post by **NiSk** » 01 Jan 2005, 19:16

YES! Thats the right bolt! If the hydraulic system is pressurized, you should hear a sharp hissing sound that takes a few seconds to fade away and ends with a clunk. A good Citroen mechanic can tell just from the discharge sound, if the accumulator sphere needs charging! The only clicking would come from the pressure cut out valve and if you hear that, you've got pressure!
//NiSk

ivan olsen · Post by **ivan olsen** » 01 Jan 2005, 19:38

well, i've heard nothing at all when i released that bolt. i think i've done more than 1 turn. could it be, that because of that rust the pressure can't be released?
i'm clueless what to do now.
shall i try to blow down the lhm intake pipe? i think i will try that, maybe that will push through the system any large bubble.

ivan olsen · Post by **ivan olsen** » 01 Jan 2005, 21:07

i've followed the big intake pipe and realized that actually the hydraulic pump is not what i thought it is, but it's a belt driven pump located on the right front side of the engine. so i've removed the big pipe from the top of it, and noticed, that the pipe must still have some air in it, as no lhm spilled out from it when removed.
when i started the engine with the lhm line off the pump i noticed the pump burping, so i guess it must be working fine. i decided to get some extra lhm, and to get rid of the remaining air in the pipe by filling it with lhm, then blowing it, then filling/blowing again and doing this for as long as no air leaves the pipe on either end, but only lhm. unfortunately i have no garage, so i have to do this tomorrow, but what a fine reason to wake up early.

)
i will let you know if this solved the problem.

NiSk · Post by **NiSk** » 02 Jan 2005, 16:03

Hi Ivan, yes you've found the cause of your problems. That hose should be full of LHM - fill it by hand, then start the engine and as soon as the pump starts to suck, stick it back on the reservoir - it will survive a certain amount of air in the suction pipe without loosing suction. It can be a messy business!
//NiSk