1.9TD Valve clearances
Moderator: RichardW
1.9TD Valve clearances
Has anybody had to change the shims on a 1.9 XUD? I checked the clearances today, and whilst 7 valves are all within tolerances, the exhaust valve on number 4 cylinder has no gap! I couldn't even get my 0.05 feeler in there. It should be 0.35mm or therabouts.
Now, I'm going to need to remove the camshaft, is there anyway of doing this without totally removing the cambelt? Also will I need to remove the vacuum pump on the end of the camshaft?
Going to scrapyard tommorow to strip al lthe XUD's they have of shims, in the hope I get one of the correct size, otherwise its off to Mr Peugeot Stealer for me.... [:(!]
Now, I'm going to need to remove the camshaft, is there anyway of doing this without totally removing the cambelt? Also will I need to remove the vacuum pump on the end of the camshaft?
Going to scrapyard tommorow to strip al lthe XUD's they have of shims, in the hope I get one of the correct size, otherwise its off to Mr Peugeot Stealer for me.... [:(!]
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You either have a choice of obtaining a new shim ex dealer or getting the existing one ground down, first you need a shim thin enough to give you a gap and to know the thickness of the shim,then do the calculation The BOL is actually not bad in this area, my engineering works ground some shims down for me to fit at a couple of pounds each. the belt will have to come off as will the vac pump. good time to do the cam end seal too.
Stewart
make sure you replace the bearing caps in the exact positions/orientation
Stewart
make sure you replace the bearing caps in the exact positions/orientation
Well the outside temp was about 10 degrees here today, but seeing as all the other clearances are within spec, I dont see that the ambient temp had much to do with it. I even double checked it after turning the engine over because I couldnt quite believe it. The engine hadnt been run for about 15 hours when they were checked.
Thanks oilyspanner, was hoping I could get the cam out without removing the vac pump, its a bit of a sod to get off, I tried earlier, can't get enough leverage on 2 of the 3 bolts because of their position.
Has anybody else ever had this problem? I've heard they can suffer recession after 100K or so (Its on 111K) but for only one valve to be so tight seems a bit odd. The engine runs absolutely fine too, apart from the missing at cold start which I now put down to loosing compression thru this valve. Good thinking about the cam seals, will replace those when I get round to changing the shim (hopefully next week now, it cant be doing it any good running that tight!)
Thanks oilyspanner, was hoping I could get the cam out without removing the vac pump, its a bit of a sod to get off, I tried earlier, can't get enough leverage on 2 of the 3 bolts because of their position.
Has anybody else ever had this problem? I've heard they can suffer recession after 100K or so (Its on 111K) but for only one valve to be so tight seems a bit odd. The engine runs absolutely fine too, apart from the missing at cold start which I now put down to loosing compression thru this valve. Good thinking about the cam seals, will replace those when I get round to changing the shim (hopefully next week now, it cant be doing it any good running that tight!)
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- x 2
When you have the belt off check for lift in the camshaft at the belt end, the aluminium bearing surface wears down in the head ,this is due to the belt constantly pulling down on the shaft, the bulk of the wear takes place during starting, so an engine thats been a long time bad starter would have more wear in these bearings than normal.
I know the camshaft in one of my engines has some lift in it, a fair bit actually, this might give rise to a false reading of clearances when static, because the camshaft bearings are hydrodynamic just like the main and big end bearings, they ride on a high pressure wedge of oil, so its not inconcievable that the camshaft will lift away from the valves by a few thou when the engine is running.
Dave
I know the camshaft in one of my engines has some lift in it, a fair bit actually, this might give rise to a false reading of clearances when static, because the camshaft bearings are hydrodynamic just like the main and big end bearings, they ride on a high pressure wedge of oil, so its not inconcievable that the camshaft will lift away from the valves by a few thou when the engine is running.
Dave
And dont bother going to PSA for shims. I ordered them from Pug and from Cit after waiting a month for Pug to get them. Eventually went to a local engine rebuild centre which also has a parts department and they supplied the exact size for £1.15 and it was a totally random size but they still had it in stock and 4pm on a Friday!
Ross,
I would double and triple check this odd measurement (or non-measurement) isn't something daft. In my experience of these engines they usually go to the grave with in-spec clearences. Pug/Cit did a good job on the design/materials of these heads/valves/cams.
Have you tried starting the engine for a few minutes and letting it cool right down to ensure it isn't just the valve bucket stuck up.
If you do get to the point of lifting the cam to do the gaps then like Vanny I use the local engine reconditioners for shims. If you take the old ones in our guys will let you trade for what you need at 50p each. I always take a micrometer as the shims sometimes don't measure what they say.
David
I would double and triple check this odd measurement (or non-measurement) isn't something daft. In my experience of these engines they usually go to the grave with in-spec clearences. Pug/Cit did a good job on the design/materials of these heads/valves/cams.
Have you tried starting the engine for a few minutes and letting it cool right down to ensure it isn't just the valve bucket stuck up.
If you do get to the point of lifting the cam to do the gaps then like Vanny I use the local engine reconditioners for shims. If you take the old ones in our guys will let you trade for what you need at 50p each. I always take a micrometer as the shims sometimes don't measure what they say.
David
Hi Ross,
If you have access to a micrometer and grinding wheel, and feel confident, then this is how I did it on my Visa.
If there is no gap then measure the shim and gring off midway between the min and max clearance.
Find a nut with an internal diameter so that the shim will fit snugly in the threaded hole, place on the grinding wheel, hold the nut with a mole wrench, place a probe ,bolt or timber dowel on the shim, start the grinding wheel and press the probe to add pressure on the shim.
Remove at intervals to see how much metal has been removed, repeat untill the final shim thickness has been reached.
Good Luck
If you have access to a micrometer and grinding wheel, and feel confident, then this is how I did it on my Visa.
If there is no gap then measure the shim and gring off midway between the min and max clearance.
Find a nut with an internal diameter so that the shim will fit snugly in the threaded hole, place on the grinding wheel, hold the nut with a mole wrench, place a probe ,bolt or timber dowel on the shim, start the grinding wheel and press the probe to add pressure on the shim.
Remove at intervals to see how much metal has been removed, repeat untill the final shim thickness has been reached.
Good Luck
I've been looking around my chat folders and found this (http://www.carmechanicsmag.co.uk/cgi-bi ... 1097786579) - exactly the same problem. Not as much detailed info as here but have a read anyway.
Ahh I see on the other forum you mention the head has been off and fiddled with. Forget my "this doesn't usually happen" comments as it is far more likely if someone has had it apart before.
Years ago bought an exchange complete head from a well known mail order supplier and on getting it home found the shimmed valves were way out...when I took it back they explained I'd chosen the budget one and needed to pay more for one that was done to a proper standard!!
David
Years ago bought an exchange complete head from a well known mail order supplier and on getting it home found the shimmed valves were way out...when I took it back they explained I'd chosen the budget one and needed to pay more for one that was done to a proper standard!!
David
Yes, it is me, I admit it! Yes, the head has been off, about 30K ago, the gasket went for the previous owner.
I've been to the scrappy today, I now have a selection of about 20 shims ranging from 2.8 to 3.15mm and all measurements in between. (Measured on some nice digital micrometer!) Hopefully now, I *may* have one that will be the size I need.
Dave B: So what shall I set the clearance to if I find I can lift the cam? Just leave it?
Check the clearance with the cam 'lifted'?
D J W: Yes it is odd, All the other 7 valves are in spec, so my conclusion is either the bearing has some wear or when the head was removed it wasnt shimmed correctly. The inlet on cylinder 4 is in spec though, (Its cylinder 4 exhaust thats tight) so hopefully its not the bearing thst *too* worn!
Cheers for your help guys, I'm gonna attack this next week and see how I get on!
Ross
I've been to the scrappy today, I now have a selection of about 20 shims ranging from 2.8 to 3.15mm and all measurements in between. (Measured on some nice digital micrometer!) Hopefully now, I *may* have one that will be the size I need.
Dave B: So what shall I set the clearance to if I find I can lift the cam? Just leave it?
Check the clearance with the cam 'lifted'?
D J W: Yes it is odd, All the other 7 valves are in spec, so my conclusion is either the bearing has some wear or when the head was removed it wasnt shimmed correctly. The inlet on cylinder 4 is in spec though, (Its cylinder 4 exhaust thats tight) so hopefully its not the bearing thst *too* worn!
Cheers for your help guys, I'm gonna attack this next week and see how I get on!
Ross
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I checked the valve clearances on both my old C15D's (120,000+ Miles) and on both vans found that a few valves had no clearance measureable. To the best of my knowledge, neither engine had had work done on the cylinder head.
Fitting new shims is not complicated, but obtaining them can be difficult as few dealers keep them in stock, so find out when your local dealer gets his parts delivered and time the job accordingly.
I can happily report that after I did the re-shimming the engines ran smoother and gave a little extra MPG. I would personally recommend doing the job if you are also changing the timing belt etc.
Fitting new shims is not complicated, but obtaining them can be difficult as few dealers keep them in stock, so find out when your local dealer gets his parts delivered and time the job accordingly.
I can happily report that after I did the re-shimming the engines ran smoother and gave a little extra MPG. I would personally recommend doing the job if you are also changing the timing belt etc.
Oh goody, more MPG sounds good! I really should have checked the clearances when I did the timing belt back in the spring, but it totally slipped my mind, ah well! Thanks to todays scrappy expedition I now can remove the camshaft without totaaly removing the cambelt, undo bearings, lift end of cam until belt goes slack and slide off belt! [;)]