Does FSH, really make that much difference to a cars value or its general running? Given that my Xantia has only 40,000 on it now with FSH, i will probably keep it for at least 3-4 years. By then it'll have 100,000-130,000 and not be worth much. So am i better doing standard stuff, like fluids and filters myself, and getting local garages to do bigger things, like timing belts,etc? Or get a local independant to do it all? Or just give it to the main dealer?
Plenty of time to answer this, so think carefully, it ain't due a service for another 6000[:D]
Is FSH worth it?
Moderator: RichardW
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martyhopkirk
All depends on the bigger picture - sell privatly with a FSH and you can command a better price (not a HUGE deal and probably never as much as the extra cost of servicing by a garage).
Plus there is BUYER CONFIDENCE a car which looks in good order WITH a FSH is always going to shift (sell) better than one without - no matter how competant a mechanic you are.
I dont feel myself there is any real difference between an independant and main dealer in terms of how much the FSH by either would add to the car - others may disagree.
Myself, I do the Fluids and Oil filter every 6K miles and send it off to the garage every 12000 for a "propper!!!!" service to keep the book stamped. Anything else is done as its needed and i keep a file with all the recipts etc.
As with everything - you pays your money. For instance my ZX cost me £600 2 years back, but I knew from the wedge of receipts it woulnt need much more spending on it - and in 2 years its cost me £70 - had it not had this history i wouldnt have paid the £600, maybe £300 - £400 at a push.
On the other hand - trade in at a dealership and you may as well save your cash - they have <b><i>NEVER </i></b>made me any allowance for a FSH and neither it seems do insurance companies if you have a total loss claim.
Plus there is BUYER CONFIDENCE a car which looks in good order WITH a FSH is always going to shift (sell) better than one without - no matter how competant a mechanic you are.
I dont feel myself there is any real difference between an independant and main dealer in terms of how much the FSH by either would add to the car - others may disagree.
Myself, I do the Fluids and Oil filter every 6K miles and send it off to the garage every 12000 for a "propper!!!!" service to keep the book stamped. Anything else is done as its needed and i keep a file with all the recipts etc.
As with everything - you pays your money. For instance my ZX cost me £600 2 years back, but I knew from the wedge of receipts it woulnt need much more spending on it - and in 2 years its cost me £70 - had it not had this history i wouldnt have paid the £600, maybe £300 - £400 at a push.
On the other hand - trade in at a dealership and you may as well save your cash - they have <b><i>NEVER </i></b>made me any allowance for a FSH and neither it seems do insurance companies if you have a total loss claim.
Actually the history will be of less and less interest to the average buyer as the car ages so if it costs a great deal to keep up then I guess it isn't worth it. I guess you are talking dealer history here and I would advise even when you go to any other avenue for maintenance do keep the records complete in the service book.
I will rarely buy any car, whatever the age, that has no records..... a good set of service book notes from the owner runs a close second to a set of dealer stamps.
I've just sold an 11yr old car with full history from new, this history was in the form of dealer stamps, independent stamps, owner notes and invoices. The buyer wasn't a bit worried by some of the DIY aspects.
Similarly I've just bought an 11yr old car with full dealer/independent records from new. I don't say I paid any more for that history but I walked on by loads with nothing in the glovebox.
The only thing that I like to see properly recorded by a dealer or independent is any timing belt change.
I do think Citroen main dealer servicing isn't appropriate or needed for you particular car.
David
I will rarely buy any car, whatever the age, that has no records..... a good set of service book notes from the owner runs a close second to a set of dealer stamps.
I've just sold an 11yr old car with full history from new, this history was in the form of dealer stamps, independent stamps, owner notes and invoices. The buyer wasn't a bit worried by some of the DIY aspects.
Similarly I've just bought an 11yr old car with full dealer/independent records from new. I don't say I paid any more for that history but I walked on by loads with nothing in the glovebox.
The only thing that I like to see properly recorded by a dealer or independent is any timing belt change.
I do think Citroen main dealer servicing isn't appropriate or needed for you particular car.
David
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by martyhopkirk</i>
Myself, I do the Fluids and Oil filter every 6K miles and send it off to the garage every 12000 for a "propper!!!!" service to keep the book stamped. Anything else is done as its needed and i keep a file with all the recipts etc.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Thats the kind of thing i was thinking about. How much is a typical 12,000 mile service?
Myself, I do the Fluids and Oil filter every 6K miles and send it off to the garage every 12000 for a "propper!!!!" service to keep the book stamped. Anything else is done as its needed and i keep a file with all the recipts etc.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Thats the kind of thing i was thinking about. How much is a typical 12,000 mile service?
As Martyhopkirk says, receipts for parts and consumables are almost as good as FSH - any buyer with a bit of sense can see the overall condition of the car, and the receipts will confirm the work that's been done.
OTOH, FSH in itself means very little - see some other recent threads here as illustrations of the standard of work done by 'professional' mechanics! The attitude of the owner is of more importance - was maintenance carried out when it was NEEDED, or left until the milometer reached the right figure?
OTOH, FSH in itself means very little - see some other recent threads here as illustrations of the standard of work done by 'professional' mechanics! The attitude of the owner is of more importance - was maintenance carried out when it was NEEDED, or left until the milometer reached the right figure?
My friend brought a Pug 106 with full service history.Only when he rang the dealer who had stamped the book,they had no record of it.Did the previous owner make his pwn stamp?Who knows.
When i got my car,it had 105k miles on it with history up to 55k odd.From then on the owner had done it all himself.It didn`t put me off buying it.I do most the work myself,& keep all the recipts etc.
Some cars need a fsh.Like BMW`S,Audis Jags etc,upto a certain age.
When i got my car,it had 105k miles on it with history up to 55k odd.From then on the owner had done it all himself.It didn`t put me off buying it.I do most the work myself,& keep all the recipts etc.
Some cars need a fsh.Like BMW`S,Audis Jags etc,upto a certain age.
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martyhopkirk
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by p20
Thats the kind of thing i was thinking about. How much is a typical 12,000 mile service?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Local garage charges £79 for what they describe as a Full service (oil change, filters check tyre pressures and fluid levels - expensive for what it is really)
Citroen Independant near me (do a betetr job and check related things like the Hydro and will also change coolant) charge £160 for a "full service" with the all important stamp!
Owned my Xantia since July and already have a sizeable folder growing of both previous records and stuff I have done.
I think what David says is true to the point, if you can prove its been looked after its going to sell better than one which doesnt look that way and may suddenly cost £££££ to the new owner - suppose its a little bit like a survey on a house (or maybe not)[:)]
Thats the kind of thing i was thinking about. How much is a typical 12,000 mile service?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Local garage charges £79 for what they describe as a Full service (oil change, filters check tyre pressures and fluid levels - expensive for what it is really)
Citroen Independant near me (do a betetr job and check related things like the Hydro and will also change coolant) charge £160 for a "full service" with the all important stamp!
Owned my Xantia since July and already have a sizeable folder growing of both previous records and stuff I have done.
I think what David says is true to the point, if you can prove its been looked after its going to sell better than one which doesnt look that way and may suddenly cost £££££ to the new owner - suppose its a little bit like a survey on a house (or maybe not)[:)]
I would generally agree the more history the better, and by history i mean invoices NOT stamps they are worthless and obviously easy to fake.
However as the car ages FSH becomes less important as the increase in value is minimal probably 100-200 on a car worth 1500.
I bought my xantia from a local garage with no service history paperwork, however prior to purchase i checked with previous owner and found it has FSH from 35k to 83k, needless to say i bought the car.
So no service history actually ensured i acquired the car for less than if it had all invoices. Everything was changed in last two years such as spheres, timing (at main dealer), rear exhaust etc. and inside and outside still look like new.
Therefore i would suggest service only adds significant value on high value cars. As a rule anything under £1500 may be worth the risk without history, as at this price/age condition is more important then invoices.
However as the car ages FSH becomes less important as the increase in value is minimal probably 100-200 on a car worth 1500.
I bought my xantia from a local garage with no service history paperwork, however prior to purchase i checked with previous owner and found it has FSH from 35k to 83k, needless to say i bought the car.
So no service history actually ensured i acquired the car for less than if it had all invoices. Everything was changed in last two years such as spheres, timing (at main dealer), rear exhaust etc. and inside and outside still look like new.
Therefore i would suggest service only adds significant value on high value cars. As a rule anything under £1500 may be worth the risk without history, as at this price/age condition is more important then invoices.
I generally agree with most of the points made here. For anyone with a modicum of auto knowledge the skill of the indy and the relevance of a main dealer are generally understood. The really ignorant or naive will generally buy from a garage unless they have a learned friend along too. I have a Xantia, had it since new with FSH, however it has only got one Citroen stamp in the book.
It was a fleet lease car and I was the only person to drive it. I even collected it from the showroom. The car was serviced on contract and if left to the lease company it would only ever have had anything done if it broke! Oil and filter at 6k but nothing else.
I knew the garage well and it is surprising what fiction you can create to get a car looked at.
So I guess even with FSH it is still a gamble. Over the years I have had a number of serious run ins with garages from issues relating to safety through to oil on the seats. On that basis we all takes our choice and trust in good luck or good morals. Nothing makes for closer working relationships in a garage than knowing the mechanic and buying him a pint!! Robin.
It was a fleet lease car and I was the only person to drive it. I even collected it from the showroom. The car was serviced on contract and if left to the lease company it would only ever have had anything done if it broke! Oil and filter at 6k but nothing else.
I knew the garage well and it is surprising what fiction you can create to get a car looked at.
So I guess even with FSH it is still a gamble. Over the years I have had a number of serious run ins with garages from issues relating to safety through to oil on the seats. On that basis we all takes our choice and trust in good luck or good morals. Nothing makes for closer working relationships in a garage than knowing the mechanic and buying him a pint!! Robin.
Personally i've never been bothered when buying - but then I'm the person who gets suspicious if a car looks too clean. I look carefully to see if it looks well lubricated and seems sound then I make up my mind.
foolhardy? - well I don't think so - I always seem to end up spending some money to get any car up to what I consider a reasonable standard and i really don't thing a service history would make any difference as things wear out anyway. From what i have seen of cars that apparently have been regularily serviced and the problems that main dealers and other 'specialists' are unable to get right I can't see any point in wasting my money!
jeremy
foolhardy? - well I don't think so - I always seem to end up spending some money to get any car up to what I consider a reasonable standard and i really don't thing a service history would make any difference as things wear out anyway. From what i have seen of cars that apparently have been regularily serviced and the problems that main dealers and other 'specialists' are unable to get right I can't see any point in wasting my money!
jeremy
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tomsheppard
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FSH- For Seller's Happiness: Fleeces Suckers Handsomely
You'll buy cheaper without it.
I once sold a Polo that I'd done a fair bit of work on and had bought a couple of new parts which I threw in. The buyer seemed suspicious until he saw my handwritten notes in the back of the Haynes; Why haven't you fitted these?
I explained that they were not due for a few thousand miles yet but that I liked to be ready to do the job. He was an aircraft fitter (I think they call them Engineers!) and he immediately handed over the asking price. One of the very few cars I broke even on!
You'll buy cheaper without it.
I once sold a Polo that I'd done a fair bit of work on and had bought a couple of new parts which I threw in. The buyer seemed suspicious until he saw my handwritten notes in the back of the Haynes; Why haven't you fitted these?
I explained that they were not due for a few thousand miles yet but that I liked to be ready to do the job. He was an aircraft fitter (I think they call them Engineers!) and he immediately handed over the asking price. One of the very few cars I broke even on!
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madasafish
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I have a simple rule when buying a second hand car. If the vendor is selling with any minor jobs not done - bulbs not working , loose trim - it's indiactive of lack of care. If it looks cared for it probably has been.
FSH helps but is not essential for cars> 5 years old . As long as they are maintained and cared for.. that is the important thing.
Most Xantias I have seen second hand look as if the owners could not care less.
A 4 year old Xantia is worth £5k at most. A 7 year old one is worth under £2k. With that depreciation, I'd service it well.. but as cheaply as possible commensurate with care.
FSH helps but is not essential for cars> 5 years old . As long as they are maintained and cared for.. that is the important thing.
Most Xantias I have seen second hand look as if the owners could not care less.
A 4 year old Xantia is worth £5k at most. A 7 year old one is worth under £2k. With that depreciation, I'd service it well.. but as cheaply as possible commensurate with care.
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Simon Canfer
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Robin</i>
It was a fleet lease car and I was the only person to drive it. I even collected it from the showroom.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I once did a job at Leith docks, must have been about 1992-3. A large number of Citroens were being loaded onto car transporters. Serious abuse was taking place- donuts, handbrake turns, you name it...the smoke being pumped out by those poor cars was dreadful. So you wouldn't have been the "only" driver!!
Simon Canfer
It was a fleet lease car and I was the only person to drive it. I even collected it from the showroom.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I once did a job at Leith docks, must have been about 1992-3. A large number of Citroens were being loaded onto car transporters. Serious abuse was taking place- donuts, handbrake turns, you name it...the smoke being pumped out by those poor cars was dreadful. So you wouldn't have been the "only" driver!!
Simon Canfer