Citroen Car Club

tomsheppard · Post by **tomsheppard** » 25 Nov 2004, 04:45

Sorry to stir the pot Alan but I don't reckon that those who have voiced contrary opinions will mind my outlining the reasons for my stated opinion.
I feel that it is a little presumptuous to speak of "contracting out" the BX section for me to write for. If I had felt that there was a need for my meagre input and experience to a club that has been going since before I was born, then this alone would have been enough to sound alarm bells. What little I know I have always felt is of more help to the members of this board than the CCC. I joined for several reasons: firstly in order to tap in to their expertise; secondly to be a part of the wider Citroen enthusiast community and thirdly to pass on shared expertise between the CCC and other Citroen Owners. Had I posted (As I would have preferred) that the CCC was an excellent organisation and that no member of this board should be without it, then I'd be replying to people who have found the organisation to be less than that. Members of this board and non affiliated Citroen owners have commented to me that in their opinions, the CCC was insular and jealous of their right to be the sole repository of Citroen lore. Rather than comment from a position of ignorance,(Information being very much Members Only) I joined so as to form my own opinion.
A half page on How I could help the club (as a member, I am entitled to quote from The Citreonian, November 2004 edition, page 66, having acknowledged the source,) reads as follows:
"Making a gift of money or arranging provision for the club's future in a Will are other ways that members could be remembered for posterity. If the club were to own its own HQ - the financial stability and credibility needed for the club - it could then concentrate on strengthening member benefits for everyone."
Does the CCC feel that they are currently financially unstable, are not credible and are not
concentrating on strengthening member benefits for everyone?
The club has also a Board of directors, being a limited Company, rather than the officials who have run other clubs that I have been an active member of, where individual members have a stake in the club.
This appears to be a business to me, not a club as I understand it
and I am somewhat offended by what seems to have been an effort to "poach" my input for what I feel would be a narrower spectrum of Citroen users than we all correspond with at present. The Southern section does not at present appear to have officers, nor yet, the South West. Preumably these sections did have at some earlier time. That I was invited to join when there seems to have been nothing for me to gain from it but much that I perhaps could have been persuaded to contribute appears to have been taking advantage of my good nature. (nb.A vastly over rated commodity!)
It may be that my experience of the CCC will turn out to be better
given time but first impressions suggest that this organisation could
do with some new blood. I'm not sure that it should be mine.
Buying tools to help folk fix their Citroens would seem to be a worthier aim than buying property. It is this ethos that I don't like. I know that the RREC have fine headquarters but theirs is a different catchment, I'm sure that you would agree.

Stinkwheel · Post by **Stinkwheel** » 25 Nov 2004, 04:52

Well what a can of worms you have opened Tom.
If in my post above i seem to be putting down the CCC I am not, I find the club structure, just that, a little too structured. I find the Citroenian an interesting read but tend to only read the sections that interest me (A-series, CX, GS/A, BX and H van usually) and the classifieds also. The memebers of the club i have met have always been friendly, helpful and knowledgeable. But some of the social occasions i have attended the general populous seemed a little dis-interested. A club is only what you make it, i confes i put little in apart from my subs. On the other hand I have been a part of the BMW motorcycle club also, good mag, mainly boring members. 2CVGB great fun and socially spot-on, with less technical stuff recently but there is a huge mine of information, you just have to dig a little. Take what you want from your clubs i say, but you need to put some back too.

David W · Post by **David W** » 25 Nov 2004, 04:53

cheesesliceking,
Sorry I really wasn't ignoring you, more that to have defensively answered/argued every point on every post might have been seen as inflamatory.
But as you are interested..
We do have an updated website with online forums now, plus online advertising and member photo gallery facilities. Like you I long campainged for this and it did arrive eventually. Our forums are much quieter than this one at present but we hope that will change as more existing/new members realise the benefit of real-time discussion.
By and large the CCC is led by its members and serves their diverse needs in the best way possible with its band of volunteer officials and writers etc. After all it has survived for over 50 years and membership is currently on the increase after a downward trend a year or two ago. If the club had been getting it so badly wrong it would have died years ago.
You are right to say that it does need new ideas and fresh input though, we have just this year seen a substantial change in the makeup of our officials and many of the improvements you might have wished for are being discussed right now.
However we could never cater for every single wish of each and every Citroen owner so it may be some member ideas are difficult to accomodate.
I was pleased to see Kathryn on board a while back and rather guessed why she seemed to slip away after a short time writing her column. To be ultra realistic it may be that even a revamped CCC will not be the favourite place for the younger AX owner...but that doesn't make the club bad, merely not the right one for you.
<<The CCC are a nice bunch of people>> Well thanks for that at least

David (Still my own opinions and not those of the CCC)

David W · Post by **David W** » 25 Nov 2004, 05:07

Tom,
Well I'm genuinely sorry it all looks as it does to you at the moment.
I freely give vast amounts of my time to so many areas of vehicle ownership and maintenance it would never cross my mind that offering anyone a chance of an extra arena to help fellow owners would be "poaching".
Anyway it is not really appropriate for me to engage in further blow by blow responses here. As a member you have my e-mail and home phone number if you wish me to raise any issues on your behalf.
Regards,
David

JohnM52 · Post by **JohnM52** » 25 Nov 2004, 05:08

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by tomsheppard
The club has also a Board of directors, being a limited Company, rather than the officials who have run other clubs that I have been an active member of.
This appears to be a business to me, not a club snip>
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Tom,
You may have been a memeber of clubs in the past which have been run by members but recent developments in the legal field in relation to clubs mean that very few now run with volunteer officials in an impromptu manner - they cannot run the financial risk which could befall them as individuals in the event of any accident/injury at a club meet. That aspect seems to have bypassed you but is not a reason to lead to your comments about the organisation that is CCC.
i am a member of the club and happily travel many miles to various meetings thoughout the country - just to meet people and see othher varied cits.

tomsheppard · Post by **tomsheppard** » 25 Nov 2004, 05:17

John thank you for making the point and bringing me up to date on that. I accept that that is a good reason for running as a Limited company but I'd still have preferred to see a tools registrar as in the LOCI or the Morini Riders' Club or The Fiat owners' Club of Great Britain. Why the CCC needs to own Property to ensure its Financial viability is beyond me and if this is its long term aim, then I feel that it is short changing its members who would gain little from a permanent headquarters now that information is so widely available on the net.

alan s · Post by **alan s** » 25 Nov 2004, 08:46

Thanks guys; your moderate attitide to each other is pleasing to see and from the admin team, we thank you.
Alan S

uhn113x · Post by **uhn113x** » 25 Nov 2004, 12:54

My two penn'orth.
I have been a member of both 2CVGB and CCC for quite a few years now, and have no complaints against either club.
Both magazines are of excellent quality, but the main reason for membership of both clubs is to be able to attend some really good events. If the perceived age range of members (why is the 16-30 group so paranoid about age of late?) is putting off younger members from joining, then, logically, they are just perpetuating this situation, but what the heck does it matter, anyhow?
A club is its members.

broomie · Post by **broomie** » 25 Nov 2004, 14:28

I am a CCC member and have found it very helpful in terms of tech reading my ex BXantia and have learnt alot just reading the otehr columns. I have bought from the classifieds too.
Tom S bought my car (the BX) and is a top guy. David Woolard has helped me on the phone (members publish telephone numebrs for calls for help) a number of time sand is also a top bloke. I look fwd to visiting Andspares, citroenZ and reading the Citroenain, they all have something for me and I don;t have a caravan, a pipe , slippers or a DS, H-van etc...
Best we all live to appercairte our diversity me thinks.

Stuart McB · Post by **Stuart McB** » 25 Nov 2004, 16:34

Thank the gods that I'm out of the 16 to 30 age group. I've been in a couple of clubs over the years, started with a Lambretta club but the council knocked the pub down where we met and that was that [:(]. As for car clubs I think the most open one has been the Vauxhall soft top Caviler club. They were realy open to all soft top VX's and had the usual prizes / awards at shows but they seemed to realise that they had to move with the times and welcomed the newer models with open arms. I think that you pays your money and you takes your choice. Each to their own and enjoy what you have. Keeping my older ZX's on the road was a full time job but the Xsara, well it looks after it self. Now lets make up with a group hug.

davek-uk · Post by **davek-uk** » 25 Nov 2004, 17:28

"..I think the most open one has been the Vauxhall soft top Caviler club." - nice one Stuart. Would the CCC club be more open if sunroofs were fitted as standard? [;)] I'll run and hide again now...

tomsheppard · Post by **tomsheppard** » 25 Nov 2004, 17:44

What are their cavils with the soft top Vauxhall?

Simon Canfer · Post by **Simon Canfer** » 25 Nov 2004, 20:02

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Jon

I have not read the Citroenian recently, but used to receive it every month when Andyspares advertised with them, I used to find it quite a good read.
I'm sure that Simon Canfer and David W will have some comment to make on this. I'm staying out of the topic from now on unless any moderating is required.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Darn, and I was going to keep quiet

I took over the ZX column of the Citroenian for a short time; these are the reasons I stopped writing it:
-Very little input from other members providing material for the column.
-Perhaps I'm unimaginative, but writing a monthly column on the simple ZX/Xsara became difficult; there is only so much you can say about it!
-Simple lack of time
The club wasn't quite what I'd expected; ideally I'd have liked to see more technical info - exactly what this forum provides. Maybe a tool loan service would be good too. Personally I don't need the social element at present.
I also found the club biased towards the hydraulic models; natural enough, if they need more support.
Simon Canfer

Stuart McB · Post by **Stuart McB** » 25 Nov 2004, 21:22

Sorry that should read Cavalier not cavlier LOL.

tomsheppard · Post by **tomsheppard** » 25 Nov 2004, 21:28

Yes Stuart; just trying to get in before Mike!