C8 - Risk of Particulate Filter Blockage

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Peter Morgan
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C8 - Risk of Particulate Filter Blockage

Post by Peter Morgan »

Hi All,
I've had this message appear. No loss of power, no obvious symptoms. I plugged in my cheapo code reader and it showed P1351, cleared code, no change. Took the car to a local garage who plugged in their diagnostic machine (generic) and it came up with two fault codes P1351 'pre-heating relay circuit, relay controlled and plugs, permanent fault and U1213 fault in vehicle speed info. They replenished tie Eolys fluid and carried out a forced re-gen of the DPF. But they then gave up as the 'risk of particulate filter blockage ' message still appears. The print out they showed me states "particle emission filter load zero"
Car has 160K miles and had a new DPF (breakdown in Franc - arghhh) at 80K
Any ideas please. I'm guessing i need to take to a main dealer now and have an official diagnostic check? I'd prefer an Indy specialist garage, but not aware of one near me in Kent
Thanks in advance for any guidance

Peter
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Re: C8 - Risk of Particulate Filter Blockage

Post by moizeau »

Did they tell the car it's had it's fluid topped up, and was the car told the dpf was changed last time round? You'll need a diagbox session to read live data. There is a link on here showing members who have it.
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Re: C8 - Risk of Particulate Filter Blockage

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

It is possible that the Eolys counter needs to be reset. Just filling it back up is not enough, as the relevant ECU has no way of measuring the contents. I am not able to advise on how to do this, other than knowing you will need access to a proper DiagBox clone system. There are forum members you may be able to help here;

https://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/ ... hp?t=56452

Oh, and :welc: to the Forum.
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Re: C8 - Risk of Particulate Filter Blockage

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Yes - all the above need to be done or the engine ECU will not know that the additive fluid has been topped up (it is not physically measured). Nor that the DPF has been replaced, as it estimates the amount of Cerine - a constituent of the additive (which cannot be burnt off) that has been dumped into the filter.

An appropriate diagnostic tool (preferably Lexia for your C8) will need to be used to access the replacement parts menu and the engine ECU to do this.

In addition, the older systems had a separate additive ECU, that often refused to be reset on some models, resulting in the need for a replacement ECU. I can probably see which system you have if you pop your VIN up.
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Re: C8 - Risk of Particulate Filter Blockage

Post by Peter Morgan »

Thanks Guys for all your replies

Marc - my VIN is VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]

I'll follow up on the Lexia recommendation

This is a great group!

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Re: C8 - Risk of Particulate Filter Blockage

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

We do try to be helpful. The main reason the forum was created was to help French car owners who have problems with their vehicles (OK, we also have a laugh, take the mickey out of each other, bicker a bit, but we do try to help as well!).
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Re: C8 - Risk of Particulate Filter Blockage

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Peter Morgan wrote: 06 Dec 2019, 17:40 Thanks Guys for all your replies

Marc - my VIN is VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]

I'll follow up on the Lexia recommendation

This is a great group!

Peter
Ok, so the good news is that on this engine and model you don't have a Carlos Fandango separate fuel additive ECU to worry about. On this system, the additive metering is handled directly by the BSI itself.

First of all the U1213 fault: This is a CAN communication fault resulting in loss of communication with the ESP system. Information is limited

The P1351 means the relay is controlled, but the glow plugs are not - so you may have one or more glow plugs due for replacement. Although these are not really needed to start the vehicle, they do assist with particle filter regeneration.

Your risk of filter blocking message may be as a result of small start / stop journeys, where it is not getting a chance to complete a regeneration cycle for one reason or another - either the vehicle engine is being switched off, or the exhaust gasses aren't getting hot enough. Try and go for an Italian tune up down the dual carriageway / motorway if you have such a thing where you are - keep her in 4th gear and a constant, half decent speed for 10-15 minutes to give her a chance to complete a cycle.
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Re: C8 - Risk of Particulate Filter Blockage

Post by Peter Morgan »

Thanks Marc. We've been deliberately giving the C8 motorway runs so it has ample opportunity to regen. I've also put in a couple of doses of Wynnes additive. I think I need to get the clever diagnostic tool connected up - presumably the pressure difference across the DPF/FAP reading will be the key one to see?
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Re: C8 - Risk of Particulate Filter Blockage

Post by RichardW »

It's probably just decided that the ash level in the filter has reached the pre determined limit, and it needs to be cleaned or replaced. If the pressure drop is OK and it's still regenning tell it you've replaced it and the light will go away.
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Re: C8 - Risk of Particulate Filter Blockage

Post by Peter Morgan »

Hi All - C8 update. I didn't manage to locate anyone with the required diagnostic equip, so had a back up appointment booked for today at Wilmoths Hastings. I paid the £60 diag fee and the display is still showing 'risk of particulate filter blocking'. Key stats were: Particulate filter load 49%, Av distance between re-gens 257km, diff in pressure DPF input/output - 0mb at idle (apparently 4mb when revved), amount of additive 3489MI, additive in DPF 169g
The service manager said none of the above were worrying and queried whether the 'counter' was reset when the DPF was replaced at 80K miles.
I assume as a Citroen dealer they are not allowed to 'tell' the car it has a new DPF to get rid of the message? So, if I succeed in getting a non-main dealer to connect up a Lexia then that can be done? If anyone has any comments on the stats, I'd be grateful for the feedback
TIA Peter :-)
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Re: C8 - Risk of Particulate Filter Blockage

Post by Peter Morgan »

Oh, just to add, quote for Euro Parts DPF £675 fitted, which was less than I thought it would be
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Re: C8 - Risk of Particulate Filter Blockage

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Peter Morgan wrote: 18 Dec 2019, 11:52 I assume as a Citroen dealer they are not allowed to 'tell' the car it has a new DPF to get rid of the message? So, if I succeed in getting a non-main dealer to connect up a Lexia then that can be done? If anyone has any comments on the stats, I'd be grateful for the feedback
TIA Peter :-)
On the contrary, it is standard Citroen procedure to tell the engine ECU that the DPF has been replaced if it actually has been replaced.

The engine ECU estimates the amount of additive dumped into the particulate filter from the day it left the factory. It records this in grammes. Cerine is a part of the additive constituents and cannot be burnt off during regeneration like ash can. So after it calculates the maximum that the filter can cope with it will flag a message saying the filter needs to be replaced. This is when you have it cleaned or replaced. If the DPF was replaced and whoever did it forgot to tell the ECU that it has been replaced, then the engine ECU will keep on adding the estimated additive dumped in and eventually will put the car into a permanent backup mode with reduced engine power.

So it is worth investigating and yes, if your mechanic has suitable diagnostic equipment they should be ale to configure the change in the replacement parts / repair section (but Diagbox is preferable).
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Re: C8 - Risk of Particulate Filter Blockage

Post by Peter Morgan »

Thanks very much Marc. My statement should have read "..... not allowed to 'tell' the car it has a new DPF if they haven't themselves fitted it"

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Re: C8 - Risk of Particulate Filter Blockage

Post by Peter Morgan »

Marc - a further Q if I may - are the 49% and 169 grammes measurements of concern? At what percentage will the DPF not function/put vehicle into limp mode?
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Re: C8 - Risk of Particulate Filter Blockage

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Put it this way - on the other 2.2 (non 175 Bhp), from a starting point of 0 grammes when it left the factory at 0 miles, at 43,750 miles there would be roughly 74g of cerine dumped into the particle filter. At 75,000 miles this would be about 127g, which is the alert level on those models.

So I suspect this is at or getting near the DPF limit to be honest. I'm not sure at present whether you have one of the longer life filters fitted to your 2008 C8, as these were fitted to later vehicles, but your is a Euro 5 vehicle so may well have.
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