Citroen gsa 1300

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Raul
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Citroen gsa 1300

Post by Raul » 24 May 2016, 07:20

Hi

It finally arrived. First impressions compared to xantia:

1) Steering is heavier
2) Noise in the cabin is much more loud
3) Height correctors work much quicker, almost instantly
4) The car is more stable on uneven road, the xantia is more like a boat.
5) Low speed uneven road is softer but some potholes and riddles are sharp
6) braking feels different. At first it was like ON or OFF, but now I am getting used. The car is anti-dive so it does not lift the back end up with heavy braking.
7) Back end is very soft if I push the car down with my hand. Xantia is not as soft. I do not know the age of the spheres but it seems they are ok in my opinion.

The only thing that does not work is the rpm barrel. Where does it get the signal?
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Citroen gsa 1299 , 1982
Citroen gs 1,2 pallas 1977
Citroen xantia 1,9 td estate 1996
Citroen Xantia 2.0 hdi 90 2000

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Re: Citroen gsa 1300

Post by Stonehopper » 24 May 2016, 07:50

All sounds about normal. The GS/A series are unlike any other car, except maybe the DS. You get used to the brakes and steering quite quickly. Tyre pressures 26psi front, 28psi rear. I would suggest the tachometer (rpm counter) would be fed from the ignition coil. It looks that way from the GS wiring diagram, but such things are difficult to trace when they disappear into a sheathing. Perhaps someone else will confirm or correct.
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Derek

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Re: Citroen gsa 1300

Post by Raul » 24 May 2016, 14:17

Yes I am used already and the more I drive the more I like it. Now I am going to treat the engine with xado just to be sure.
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Citroen gsa 1299 , 1982
Citroen gs 1,2 pallas 1977
Citroen xantia 1,9 td estate 1996
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Re: Citroen gsa 1300

Post by Mandrake » 24 May 2016, 14:31

Raul wrote:It finally arrived. First impressions compared to xantia:

3) Height correctors work much quicker, almost instantly

I wouldn't say that the height correctors are any faster in a GS, in fact I'm pretty sure that they are the exact same unit as used on a Xantia. (I have stripped both down before and haven't seen any internal differences)

More likely the Xantia's you have driven have partially seized height corrector linkage assemblies. This limits the movement of the height corrector control valve causing a longer delay and slower movement in response to height errors. I have the same issue on the rear of my Xantia right now, although the front corrects pretty quickly.

On a GS there is no pivoting mechanism to rust and seize together, there is simply a torsion bar that goes from the roll bar clamp to the height corrector with no pivots at the rear and only a single nylon pivot at the front - thus even on an old GS the height corrector can move freely and work quickly.
4) The car is more stable on uneven road, the xantia is more like a boat.
5) Low speed uneven road is softer but some potholes and riddles are sharp

In general the ride on a GS is better than a Xantia but as you have noticed the front suspension does hit sharp potholes quite harshly sometimes. This is because there are no rubber bushes between the front suspension chassis and the body - it just bolts directly on. It is also partly caused by the front suspension anti-dive geometry as the front wishbone arms are tilted forward quite a bit. This eliminates dive under acceleration but does make riding over potholes slightly harsher.
7) Back end is very soft if I push the car down with my hand. Xantia is not as soft. I do not know the age of the spheres but it seems they are ok in my opinion.

The rear of a GS is softer to push down by hand than a Standard Xantia, yes, but it is not softer than the rear of a Hydractive 2 Xantia.
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Simon

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver

1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
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Re: Citroen gsa 1300

Post by Raul » 25 May 2016, 06:21

The resonance that sometimes comes through the chassis during the braking is normal I guess?

I also would like to ask what are the max safe speeds with 1-st, 2-nd, 3-rd,4-th and 5-th gear. I do not want to overrev the engine.
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Citroen gsa 1299 , 1982
Citroen gs 1,2 pallas 1977
Citroen xantia 1,9 td estate 1996
Citroen Xantia 2.0 hdi 90 2000

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Re: Citroen gsa 1300

Post by Stonehopper » 25 May 2016, 10:08

Resonance under braking. If this relates to a high frequency resonance at lower speeds, this may be due to glazed, contaminated, or too hard a pad material. Textar pads are the recommended variety.

Max engine rpm are 6,500, and the top speed is around 98 - 100 mph. If I had a better brain I would be able to calculate the road speeds in each gear given all the ratios, but I'm not that clever! I'm sure someone will step up to the plate.
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Re: Citroen gsa 1300

Post by Mandrake » 25 May 2016, 10:40

Hard to know what "resonance under braking" means, but one comment I would make is that if you brake hard from a very low speed - such as trying to pull out onto the road and then having to slam on the brakes due to a previously unseen passing car you can sometimes notice a bit of a "shudder" that passes right through the car.

This is due to the brakes being inboard on the gearbox and the braking force being applied through the drive shafts and drive shaft joints. So if you slam on the brakes hard at a very low speed it can cause the natural slack in the drive shaft joints to be taken up very abruptly giving something of a shudder as it rocks the joints on their slack. This will be worse if the drive shaft joints are worn.

You should not notice anything like this when braking from normal driving speeds however.
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Simon

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver

1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive

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Re: Citroen gsa 1300

Post by Raul » 25 May 2016, 13:08

Hi

How to explain- if I am braking then sometimes I feel judder or smth that transfers through the body and also makes noise. It happens with lower speeds. It does not happen every time but it happens more when there is a passanger on the next seat . Like the whole body is in resonance . It is not normal in my opinion .

I found out what was wrong with the rpm barrel. The previous owner has changed the whole ignition system and has left the rpm contact unconnected. The reason why is because the two sided contact is on the + side of the ignition coil but the rpm barrel needs its reading from the - side. I simply have to switch the two sided contact from the + to the -, and the rpm barrel is working again.
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Citroen gsa 1299 , 1982
Citroen gs 1,2 pallas 1977
Citroen xantia 1,9 td estate 1996
Citroen Xantia 2.0 hdi 90 2000

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Re: Citroen gsa 1300

Post by Stonehopper » 25 May 2016, 17:52

You might want to check the rear gearbox mounting. If the rubber has perished there could be metal to metal contact causing vibes under braking.
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Re: Citroen gsa 1300

Post by Raul » 26 May 2016, 06:35

Hi


So today I wanted to drive to work but after a few km-s I realised that clutch pedal feels different and the clutch is slipping. It happened overnight. How bad is clutch on them to change? Does it mean engine off??
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Citroen gsa 1299 , 1982
Citroen gs 1,2 pallas 1977
Citroen xantia 1,9 td estate 1996
Citroen Xantia 2.0 hdi 90 2000

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Re: Citroen gsa 1300

Post by myglaren » 26 May 2016, 06:42

A long time since I did mine but seems it wasn't too bad. Took me all day but I wasn't rushing things.
Yes, engine out :(
Worst thing I found was getting the exhaust and heater pipes to line up nicely.
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Re: Citroen gsa 1300

Post by Mandrake » 26 May 2016, 07:28

If it changed suddenly it's possibly the clutch control fork has developed a crack and is starting to split in half.

When this happened to me it went from starting to slip to complete loss of clutch in only a day or two.

Replacing the clutch fork is an engine out job but on a GS that is a pretty easy job. Two people can lift the engine out and sit it on a table without a hoist! :-D (although a simple hoist will make things easier)

It means removing all the front bumper assembly and under tray of course but once you do that you can stand in the engine bay beside the engine...
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Simon

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver

1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive

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Re: Citroen gsa 1300

Post by Raul » 26 May 2016, 17:45

Hi

I do not have a pit nor two post lift. I am planning to put the car on wooden blocks. I have to find a proper place on the car where to put the wooden blocks to support the body. The body could be weak and deform under the weight of the car. Logically I have to remove some hydraulic pipes from the engine. This is my biggest fear as if something brakes then I am in big trouble. I am afraid I have to do this myself as there are no citroen fans in my country who are familiar with this car and its mechanics.
What parts do I need and are they still available? Clutch control fork - it sound like this is not a simple wear item and the only way is to find a good second hand original. Are the repairable with welding? I do not think that the problem is clutch disc because it developed overnight. Before that absolutly no slipping.Though I admit I drove it like if I had stolen it.
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Citroen gsa 1299 , 1982
Citroen gs 1,2 pallas 1977
Citroen xantia 1,9 td estate 1996
Citroen Xantia 2.0 hdi 90 2000

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Re: Citroen gsa 1300

Post by Mandrake » 26 May 2016, 18:07

You don't need a pit or a two post lift to do the job.

When I had to take out the engine on mine to change the clutch fork we just did it in a normal single car garage and drove the front of the car up on standard car ramps to get a little bit of height off the ground and used a simple block and tackle to take most of the weight of the engine while we guided it onto a small table. The engine weighs hardly anything by modern standards.

You don't lift the engine out vertically on a GS, you must take all the front bumper and under tray off so the engine can come forward. Unless the bolts are all rusted its not a difficult job and can be done in about half an hour. (It also needs to come off to do the timing belts, so if the timing belts are due to be replaced consider doing it in the same job!)

Drive the car up on to some ramps at the front and lower the suspension. The car can remain supported by its wheels for the entire job, no need to block anything except the wheels.

Remove the headlights and blinker units, then remove the black frame across the front that holds the headlights. Now remove the front corner chrome bumpers as there are bolts underneath them. Finally remove the front bumper / under-tray unit - this has many bolts and all comes out as one piece. Once you have done this you have full access to the engine and the engine bay is completely open.

There are only two hydraulic pipes that must be disconnected from the engine - the low pressure hose that comes from the LHM reservoir tank and the high pressure line which goes from the pressure regulator towards the back of the car under the spare wheel location. Both are obvious when you have the spare wheel out and the front bumper assembly off.

The engine unbolts from the gearbox and comes off forwards. The gearbox and driveshafts remain in place and the car can remain standing on its wheels.

As for where to get a clutch fork, when I did the job we had a spare engine and gearbox to steal parts from...(and it was 20 years ago!)
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Simon

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver

1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive

Raul
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Re: Citroen gsa 1300

Post by Raul » 26 May 2016, 20:08

Thanks. Sounds like a simple job. The cambelt was done last year by previous owner. I am thinking about changing the exchaust pipes. The y piece had a little hole wich I already repaired with paste and tape but I might renew it as the engine has to come out anyway. I think getting the exchaust system leakfree is one of the biggest troubles afterwards.
0x
Citroen gsa 1299 , 1982
Citroen gs 1,2 pallas 1977
Citroen xantia 1,9 td estate 1996
Citroen Xantia 2.0 hdi 90 2000