Tyres; Tubes in Tubeless

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Stonehopper
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Tyres; Tubes in Tubeless

Post by Stonehopper » 23 Dec 2015, 18:52

I have in the past, and more recently, fitted tubes into tubeless tyres that showed signs of deflating slowly due to rim corrosion failing to seal on the tyre bead. My local tyre depot had no problems fitting tubes into my tubeless tyres on the Dyane (due to the aforementioned reason for leakage) and are quite happy to fit tubes into the GS wheels with tubeless tyres, one of which is pretty rusty and slowly leaking.

But research is showing that this is claimed to be not such a good idea - or is it? Most information leans towards not putting tubes into tubeless tyres as the tube changes the characteristics of the tyre as a whole by making it slightly stiffer. There is also claimed the fact that a punctured tubeless tyre with tube, will deflate more rapidly as air can escape around the valve in the rim - a reasonable point -, and that tubeless tyres when punctured will grip the item causing the puncture, and either not deflate, or deflate more slowly. I am sceptical about that claim having had tubeless tyres deflate quite quickly when the offending object has been ejected through centrifugal force.

The other claimed problem is that tyres intended to take inner tubes are smooth all around the inside of the casing, and that tubeless tyres are often ribbed inside (most seem to be) giving a possible chafing action under normal driving conditions which in turn could lead to punctures. I'm not so sure that is a valid argument, and wonder just how much backside covering is being administered.

The only measurable experience I have of putting tubes into tubeless tyres of late, is the fact that the Dyane steered more positively after tubes were fitted - less deflection from side winds, the ride at large was unaffected.

Does anyone have any personal experiences regarding tubes in tubeless tyres?

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Stickyfinger
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Re: Tyres; Tubes in Tubeless

Post by Stickyfinger » 23 Dec 2015, 19:29

Never had a problem running tubes and normal tyres (Conti) on the Healey wire wheels. I only rim tape over the spokes, I use a little powder as well but many do not.

Peter.N.
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Re: Tyres; Tubes in Tubeless

Post by Peter.N. » 24 Dec 2015, 01:17

I've done it enough times - in the past.

Peter

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CitroJim
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Re: Tyres; Tubes in Tubeless

Post by CitroJim » 24 Dec 2015, 05:36

Peter.N. wrote:I've done it enough times - in the past.
Me too when I used to run R4s.. I even used to do it myself with some proper big tyre levers!

I always believed the ribbing on the inside of the tyre was to prevent the tube rotating inside the tyre and potentially ripping out the valve...

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Re: Tyres; Tubes in Tubeless

Post by Gibbo2286 » 24 Dec 2015, 10:58

The problem as I've seen on some tyres is that the construction has changed somewhat over recent years and the newer stuff tends to make the tube creep along and bunch up, stretching in some places and creasing in others.

I've done it many times in the past but my local tyre specialist says now, absolutely not.

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Stickyfinger
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Re: Tyres; Tubes in Tubeless

Post by Stickyfinger » 24 Dec 2015, 11:50

If things have moved on in 3/4 years then OK, things do change.

BUT why not fix the rims ? It should be easy to do with a grinder/flap wheels and a little chemical metal into any deep pits.... or .... at a wheel refurbishing place at £30 for simple powder coating job.

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Stonehopper
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Re: Tyres; Tubes in Tubeless

Post by Stonehopper » 24 Dec 2015, 14:34

Yes, a rim fix is the best solution. In the meantime . . .

New rims are also available, and with a few dings from historic kerb strikes might be favourite.

Tubes should not crease. If they do it could be caused by a wrong size being used to get out of a hole, or a poor fitting technique. Never experienced that as a problem in the past - though I've pinched a few getting covers on way back! :evil: :oops:

PS: There's also issues over dusting with powder to prevent creasing upon fitting. Some are now saying it encourages creep. Such claims are parallel to those who lubricate wheel nuts, and those who will not due to the affected torque applied vs tightness. Does grease really help them come loose? Maybe so. With tubes, I still consider much is the covering of backsides of those in the trade.

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Zelandeth
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Re: Tyres; Tubes in Tubeless

Post by Zelandeth » 28 Dec 2015, 18:42

Tubes in tubeless tyres I've done in the past (Skoda Estelle alloys go porous around the valve stems for a passtime), without any problems.

If a wheel calls for tube tyres though the correct type should be used. Tube tyres often have a slightly different type of beading and it's possible that a tubeless tyre could break the bead under high lateral loads (i.e. last ditch evasive action to avoid an accident) with obvious consequences. That info came from a contact who worked in a tyre fitters for many years so I've never really questioned it.

That discussion arose from the need to get tyres for my Lada Niva back then which needed tube tyres in what is now a largely obsolete size so it took some digging to find them in tube form.

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Stonehopper
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Re: Tyres; Tubes in Tubeless

Post by Stonehopper » 30 Dec 2015, 09:23

Many thanks for the sharing gents.

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macplaxton
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Re: Tyres; Tubes in Tubeless

Post by macplaxton » 06 Jan 2016, 01:07

I dislike tubes in tubeless. One of my past cars had a set of wheels with tubes in. On blasting the wheels prior to powder coating, one of the wheels had a keyhole shaped hole where the valve would be due to rust. The other three rims were pitted with rust around the valve holes.

My main grumble is really that some tyre fitters run a mile from fitting tubeless tyres onto ye olden days tubeless rims that don't have the newer safety hump that resists the tyre rolling off the rim. I'd rather deal with that rare scenario than deal with tubes that leave you with a flat rather than a slow puncture if a nail/screw pierces the cover.

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2cy
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Re: Tyres; Tubes in Tubeless

Post by 2cy » 24 Jan 2016, 20:42

I've had done it myself (fitting tubes into tubeless rims) on various cars, but the advice I was more recently given is that the valve holes of some alloys are a different shape, and that the inside of the hole needs to be rounded before fitting tubes, otherwise they chafe on the hard edge. Not so much of a problem with steel or extruded alloy rims.

My '04 Chrysler's alloys started to leak.. gradually but annoyingly so. I got fed up with paying for air so took it to a non-francised tyre centre, who removed the tyre ran around the inside of the rim with a fibre-abrasion disk on a drill (like the sort being sold to remove paint) and then applied a liquid rubber solution (I'm guessing latex), before refitting the tyre. In the case of these rims - these valve holes weren't a good shape for fitting a tube. I've had no problem with self-deflating since.

D.I.Y. ? Quick and cheapest fix is to remove the tyre, wire brush it, and then scrub paint into the inside. Even though it might not look gorgeous the air pressure cannot push the paint through the pores. Job done. When dry put the tubeless tyre back on.