Ducellier 4411B distributor parts - schoolboy error.

Dedicated to owners of Citroen GS and GSA models.

Moderator: RichardW

User avatar
macplaxton
Posts: 167
Joined: 08 Jun 2011, 18:09
Location: Ireland
My Cars: 1978 GS X2

Ducellier 4411B distributor parts - schoolboy error.

Post by macplaxton » 09 Jun 2015, 22:04

Okay, okay. I didn't read the parts book properly and order the right bits.

The plan of action was to replace 4 bits of the distributor the other day. I'd order a Valeo D103 cap and rotor set and a D221 contact breaker and condenser set from mister-auto.ie

This is the second time I've ordered from Mister-Auto and they got it right this time. In my first order was a solitary NGK glow plug and a lack of Bougicord HT leads. It was a simple reference error. They both had the same number 3413 or something, but the packing ace had put a NGK 3413 box in instead of a Bougicord 3413 box in the parcel. All sorted without too much hassle. Took a week to rock up so no good if you're in a rush, but for this country amazingly quick and not Intermotor or suchlike as can be had down the local parts factors if you're very lucky. One final thing to say about them is that standard slowboat delivery to Ireland is fine, as it's sent Belgian bpost to start with and is delivered by An Post. So no long journeys to the DHL/UPS/DPD depot as it lands in the local post office if not in. 0.5 miles away. On the hand if you get free/standard delivery in the UK, then you might want to pay extra for DHL as the standard service involves YODEL. Fine if the local agent is any good, but I haven't met one yet.

Oh and I forgot to say that comparing the .ie shop portal with the .co.uk one reveals a mysterious pricing system....

Anyway, in this particular instance I ordered the two sets above as it was cheaper than the four individual items. Makes sense. But for another Ducellier distributored car I have it was cheaper buying the four bits separate. All I can say is check and double check.

First up was to look at the cap...

Image
Ducellier Valeo D805 (661920) v unknown old cap 1 by macplaxton, on Flickr
Image
Ducellier Valeo D805 (661920) v unknown old cap 2 by macplaxton, on Flickr
Image
Ducellier Valeo D805 (661920) v unknown old cap 3 by macplaxton, on Flickr

Looks like it will do the job, but it ain't the Valeo chestnut colour they used to use. :(

Have a closer look on the inside:

Image
Ducellier Valeo D805 (661920) cap 1 by macplaxton, on Flickr

and compare this contact:

Image
Ducellier Valeo D805 (661920) cap 3 by macplaxton, on Flickr

with this one:

Image
Ducellier Valeo D805 (661920) cap 2 by macplaxton, on Flickr

Bit shonky eh?

So I try fitting the rotor arm. B*****ks! It don't fit. Well it goes on, but not all the way down...

Image
Ducellier Valeo D903 (608389) rotor arm 1 by macplaxton, on Flickr
Image
Ducellier Valeo D909 (664225) rotor arm 1 by macplaxton, on Flickr

and here's why:

Image
Ducellier Valeo D909 (664225) rotor arm v D903 (608389) 2 by macplaxton, on Flickr
Image
Ducellier Valeo D909 (664225) rotor arm v D903 (608389) 5 by macplaxton, on Flickr
Image
Ducellier Valeo D909 (664225) rotor arm v D903 (608389) 4 by macplaxton, on Flickr

The lug on the newer rotor arm is 4mm wide and the old one 3mm. Now if I read the Valeo application guide properly I would have known that they make no listing for an early rotor arm any more. The early arm fits the 4411B and 4411C. Whereas the later arm fits the 4411E, 4411F and 4411G revisions.

Now if I read my Citroen parts book before I order I would have known the cut-off date for the change over was 6CV 2/79 and 7CV 7/78.

So now I know that one cap D805 fits all, but there are two arms D903 (3mm) and D909 (4mm) (Never mind SEVs and GSAs). Valeo don't do a D903 any more, so it's either alternative supplier or hunting NOS.
The early combo set of cap and rotor is D109 and the later combo D103 (again NOS or alternative supplier)

:grr:

Next up was the contact set as it was looking a bit grim when I was last messing with the dizzy in the middle of a night.

This was looking more promising:

Image
Old fixed arm contact v new Ducellier Valeo D338 (121509) 1 by macplaxton, on Flickr
Image
Old sprung arm contact v new Ducellier Valeo D338 (121509) 2 by macplaxton, on Flickr

At least the bits fitted, although I found the green wire from the new condenser rather long.

Image
Ducellier Valeo D707 (343707) by macplaxton, on Flickr

So I got the car fired up with everything but a new rotor on it. Ran okay, so got Mrs MacP to swap cars in the drive. Once she got in her car I couldn't move the car out of the driveway. Why? It was running like a pile of poo and stuttering all over the place. So after taking the distributor back off and checking a few things decided to put the old faithful back on.

Image
Ducellier (609504) condenser by macplaxton, on Flickr

Then the engine was running sweet as again. I think I managed to get about 1 minute out of that new one.

:lazer:

So all it leaves me wondering now is how much effort might be involved in modifying a 4411 B/C to take a 4411 E/F/G rotor arm. I can stick with it at the moment, but I'd rather make my life easier in the future.
0x

sandybx
Posts: 65
Joined: 22 Apr 2013, 18:40
Location: Tonbridge KENT
My Cars: Ctroen,s SAAB, s Vauxhall,s.
x 2

Re: Ducellier 4411B distributor parts - schoolboy error.

Post by sandybx » 11 Jun 2015, 22:27

Dear Macs,
you really need to get yourself a " dwell " meter :idea: They are a hand held meter designed for reading the voltage across the points, when the points are in the closed position.
You should be looking for a reading of 57 degrees or % depending on the scale on the dwell meter. when the engine is running at idle :wink:
I hope this helps :)
Vince,
0x
1992 Citroen BX TX i 1.6 auto with air con in White with 47,000 miles.
1988 SAAB classic 900 i with 3 spoke Ronals in rose quartz with 69,000 miles.

User avatar
macplaxton
Posts: 167
Joined: 08 Jun 2011, 18:09
Location: Ireland
My Cars: 1978 GS X2

Re: Ducellier 4411B distributor parts - schoolboy error.

Post by macplaxton » 11 Jun 2015, 23:07

Thanks Vince, but I've already got one (and had one).

The Draper thing blew the fuse/board and the Equus Innova 5568 timing light I have that does it is in bits - failed LCD backlight and the tube isn't flashing as bright as it was: https://www.flickr.com/photos/19864651@ ... 6414261470

Had all that carry on with the formerly fitted SEV. ;)
0x